First-time Author Gets Deal With McGraw Hill, Writes Best-Seller
An artificial intelligence expert who’s worked with the United Nations and IBM wrote a book on AI when he realized people are asking the same two questions about the subject: What should I be doing? How do I actually get started?
Entrepreneur-author Neil Sahota says: “Most of the books were very technical, and people couldn't understand or they were really fear mongering. I thought: ‘I will solve this problem. I'll write a book for non-technical business leaders so they can answer those two questions’.”
Neil had never written a book before, but Own the A.I. Revolution: Unlock Your Artificial Intelligence Strategy to Disrupt Your Competition was picked up by McGraw Hill and became a bestseller!
Neil is a professor at UC Irvine, IBM Master Inventor, and advisor to the United Nations on artificial intelligence. He joins Published Author Podcast host Josh Steimle to discuss writing and promoting his first book.
TOP TAKEAWAY: HAVE A DETAILED OUTLINE
As a first-time entrepreneur-author, Neil has many takeaways, but the essential learning is that having a detailed outline is a must.
“An outline makes the writing process so much easier,” says Neil, adding that his co-author Michael Ashley really helped him structure the book and frame the story.
“I had lots of knowledge, lots of examples of things I had done, but they were just scattershot; they didn’t make sense to anybody else,” he continues. “So we spent a good five or six hours in a couple of sessions, just throwing everything out there.”
“We built a very detailed outline. It took about six weeks to build a detailed outline, it was about 54 pages long.”
LEVERAGE YOUR NETWORK
Neil reached out to thought leaders in his network for interviews to build the content for the book. This idea soon evolved into something bigger when Neil and Michael received incredibly rich contributions from big names in AI, including Peter Diamandis, Steven Kotler, Stephen Ibaraki, and Ben Goertzel. These interviews make up a full section of the book.
The two authors also interviewed people across a range of industries, as well as smaller entrepreneurs, ensuring that the book was both comprehensive and deep.
CONSIDER WORKING WITH A CO-AUTHOR
As a first-time author, Neil knew nothing about writing or publishing. He sought out co-author Michael, who has written more than ten books.
“It was an experience that if I tried to do on my own, it probably would have fallen flat. I didn't realize how incredibly difficult it was right to write a book and how even more difficult is to get published,” says Neil. “I have a new appreciation for authors because it is a grind. It's a worthwhile grind. But it's still a grind!”
Despite the grind, Neil adds: “The experience of writing the book was way better than I ever would have imagined. I was happy to get the book and just hoped to help people. But given the kind of feedback . . . As a first time author, I was totally stoked!
Neil’s collaboration with Michael has been extremely successful and they are planning two more books. Their next one is on disruptive thinking, while book number three will be on art and technology.
Neil’s other key takeaways as a first-time author are:
Keep a firm focus on your audience and don’t forget you are writing for them, not you
A book needs to make sense to an audience and resonate with readers
Even if you work with a traditional publisher, as an author you’re still responsible for promoting and marketing your book
Don’t get too attached to your title; if your book is published by a traditional publisher the title may change
Going with a traditional publisher means that they buy the book, own it, and can do whatever they want with it.
Neil also discusses what it means when a publisher has an option on an author’s next book, how he promoted Own the A.I. Revolution: Unlock Your Artificial Intelligence Strategy to Disrupt Your Competition, and how he was able to expand sales beyond the original target niche.
LINKS
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Josh Steimle
Welcome to the Published Author Podcast where we help entrepreneurs learn how to write a book and leverage it to grow their business and make an impact. I'm your host, Josh Steimle. Today, our guest is Neil Sahota. He's a professior at UC Irvine, an IBM Master Inventor, an advisor to the United Nations on artifical intelligence, and author of the book, Own the AI Revolution: Unlock Your Artificial Intelligence Strategy To Disrupt Your Competition. He also helps the Zero Abuse Project prevent child sexual abuse, as well as playing at home to engage youth culture in sustainability initiatives. Neil, welcome to the show.
Neil Sahota
Hey, thanks for being on Josh. Excited to be here.
Josh Steimle
I'm excited to talk to you because you're a techie. And I like to think sometimes that I'm a little bit techie, as well. But before we dive into, I really want to talk about your book, and I want to talk give you a chance to talk about your background and where you come from. But first things first, what gets you excited about AI these days? And what can we look forward to in the next 1020 years that's going to change our lives coming from AI?
Neil Sahota
You know, it's a great question, Josh, I'm actually really into a new field that's popping up called artificial empathy. Where even though the machines don't feel the emotions, they can detect it in people and respond and kind.
Josh Steimle
Interesting, tell us more about that.
Neil Sahota
Well, I like I like to use the example like, you know, my significant other, she's the person that I love the most dearly in life, and we still have a lot of miscommunication, like in hot water from time to time. Right? It's just like, sometimes you don't pick up on those clues, or you don't hear a little subtlety in the voice.
Josh Steimle
Yeah, it's hard to read minds, right?
Neil Sahota
Yeah, machines are really actually really good at that. They they're looking at all the points of body language or listening to word choice, intent. So machines have gotten really good at figuring out the emotional state of a person, but also learning like, you know, this person, you care about these things, and you get to use these types of words, right? I, you know, I'm a guy, I like to go out and solve problems. But she, she's not so much worried about the problem. She just wants to feel reassured, right? So it's like, I'm speaking Spanish, and she's speaking French are almost there. But still, that disconnect, and AI is actually interesting bridge to help solve that.
Josh Steimle
So what would be a practical example of how AI would help with that are applied empathy would help with that, or with any other human to human problem?
Neil Sahota
Oh, you know, sometimes you she'll say, like, I'm fine, right? And there's some times where she says, in a way, it's like, okay, it's not fine. Like, I'm fine. You're like, okay, it seems like she's all right. But here's where I would actually pick up on those little clues. And I'm like, wow, you know, our eyes are a little narrowed. Voice dropped down a little bit. And no, she said, kind of currently. No, she's not fine. And she's pretty angry.
Josh Steimle
Be like, a little earbud in our ears that's hidden whispering in our ear saying, No, that's not what she means.
Neil Sahota
Basically saying like, you know, you probably want to ask her this question, phrased this way. Right. Otherwise, you're just gonna dig yourself into a deeper hole.
Josh Steimle
Now, that's interesting, because I think a lot of people would hear that and say, well, that takes away the humaneness out of the conversation. And yet, I, I'm guessing that you would have a different response to that.
Neil Sahota
I think it just makes us better communicators. It's not that it's substituting our humanity. But it's helping us understand where the other person is coming from me think about it. When you're talking to somebody you're trying to gauge when somebody they're distracted, you might be distracted, like, what are the kids up to? Or we're gonna go for dinner? We don't have the 100% concentration. And so you miss clues. And there's lots of subtle clues that we give. Why is people even want that advantage? I mean, wouldn't if you really want to be empathetic? Wouldn't you want to try to understand the true state of the person?
Josh Steimle
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like having a coach or a relationship coach or somebody, somebody there. And of course, people go to relationship coaches all the time, and they help you learn what those cues are, and how to respond to things that people are doing. So if we can do that with AI, and it's giving us real time tips, what's really the difference there? I mean, you still have your choice, whether you can do what it tells you to do, but
Neil Sahota
100% Josh, I think the thing is, if this helps us get to deeper, more meaningful relationships with people, it's a pretty useful tool in my eyes.
Josh Steimle
So can we have this done in like three months because I need this!
Neil Sahota
There actually . . . So this is works been going on for a couple of years, there's actually one one thing I'm helping out a company called Cyrano AI of Newport Beach. They actually have something they've released right now. And so they're actually using it that our first focus was originally depressed and suicidal teenagers. But they're actually launched a Zoom plugin. So they're trying to help people on video conference calls now at least try and make some of these connections I'll coach you along. Because you know, we do lose something not being face-to-face.
Josh Steimle
So that's interesting. So speaking of suicide, like how, sorry, now I'm going off track here. But this is too interesting to pass up. How would AI or AE help us? or help people who are having suicidal ideation deal with that better?
Neil Sahota
Let's get it's not meant to be a substitute for like humans, or therapy or anything like that. But it gives people an outlet, right? If you have an episode, and no one's around, or it's 2am, whatever the reason, if you have a safe space where you can talk, because most people don't feel like the AI is charging them. So then it's better than nothing. Like you're saying it's not necessarily a replacement for humans, but it might be better than nothing at all. Yeah, it's, it's it is. And the thing is that as the AI is engaging, is changing based on the behavior of the person. At the same time, the AI can assess the level of intent. So like, this person is saying, I'm feeling suicidal, are they thinking, they're just saying it, maybe in a month, maybe a week, maybe within the hour, and if it's in the hour, they'll maybe they'll alert 911 or somebody somebody else or convinced them like, Hey, you need to call this number and talk to a person. But the goal is that people have that safe space, they feel like they at least belong to something. You know, they have that outlet, which I think is so critical, especially in times of COVID, where we seen mental health issues have skyrocketed.
Josh Steimle
Yeah, for sure. This is so interesting. I think we could go on for hours just talking about this and never actually get to talking about your book and the process you went through there. Before we get to the book, tell us a little bit about yourself and your background. Where did you come from? Where did you grow up? And how did you get involved in AI? And then how did you become a writer on this topic?
Neil Sahota
I am originally from New York, kid from the Bronx. So grew up in Yankee Stadium, love the Yankees. Sorry, everybody out there that's not a fan. But you know, my dad took a job when I was young. And when I went to California, where I actually went through culture shock,
Josh Steimle
I bet kind of been I'm on the East Coast, and I grew up in LA. So I'm getting the reverse of what you went through.
Neil Sahota
There we go. But I think it was actually a boon to me in that I got exposed to two very different cultures of the young age that you kind of think kind of made me open to new experiences, new ideas. And, you know, I started my career actually, as a management consultant, Global Fortune 500 companies. But I was always thinking about the larger picture. And I just tried to solve a small problem at hand. But is there a bigger solution that solves a lot of the general problem. And I wound up creating a bunch of intellectual property and patents around what I was calling enterprise intelligence. But we today call machine learning and artificial intelligence. And so I wound up getting sucked into IBM's orbit and part of the original Watson team. There was a Jeopardy challenge and then building out the ecosystem. But it was really there the ecosystem that after Jeopardy, I was really advocating soaking it up and let people bring their knowledge and help them figure out new products and services, such as the tech side, the business side, where I actually realized everyone has the same two questions when it comes to AI. I know I need to be doing something, what should I be doing? And after I figured that out, how do I actually get started? And working one on one with these organizations wasn't the most efficient way it was effective, but it wasn't the efficient way to help people answer those questions. And I thought, well, there's got to be some good books on this. And there wasn't, I mean, most of the books were very technical, people couldn't understand or they were really fear mongering. And I'm like, I will solve this problem. I'll write a book for non-technical business leaders so they can answer those two questions.
Josh Steimle
Yeah, when you talk about fear mongering, I thought when you said there are two questions everybody asks about AI, one of them was going to be how do we keep it from killing us all? Because that seems to be a dominant theme and of course movies these days, but also in more serious venues. I mean, you've got Ilan. musk and others talking about this type of thing all the time. And from your perspective, let's just nip that in the bud. From your perspective, do you see AI as something that can truly be dangerous or takeover or become our robot overlords someday?
Neil Sahota
No, I look, I don't want to discount people's concerns and our fears, some of them are very much justified. But AI today is passive. It only does what we ask it. And it can only do what we teach it. It's not you're just thinking out by itself, like Skynet. And then a lot of people say, well, it will be evolved, it will reach the point singularity, I actually don't see us going in that direction. Right, there's actually not a lot of push into, like artificial general intelligence. There's more about this human machine integration going on. I actually believe in the cyborg feature where we, as people are trying to make ourselves better through machine technology. So I know there's a host of other things I will be mad at or whatever. But philosophically, and we're some of these things are, they're so far away, that it's just a tool during the day is a tool, it's us as humans as people to choose how we wield it. We can use it to create or we can use it to destroy, but that's on us as people.
Josh Steimle
Right? Just like automobiles and every other invention, people were afraid of these things when they came out. And I just happens to be a slightly more sophisticated tool, right?
Neil Sahota
It is, but it's, you know, it's hilarious. I actually have this example in my book, and that when the printing press first came out, people thought that Gutenberg had essentially destroyed knowledge forever, that this thing went How ironic, corrupt, no intelligence and all these things and information. Of course, we look back and laugh and say, No, I had the exact opposite effect, right, it's credit to the masses. I feel confident that 50 years from now, people will look back. And when we were talking about today, it seemed like, I don't know why those guys were worried about that stuff, you know, but we live today, not in the future.
Josh Steimle
I appreciate your more hopeful vision of our future compared to Terminator. So you wanted to write this book because you wanted to help normal business people, not non- techies, non-programmers, non-engineers understand AI and the opportunities as well as it sounds like some of the challenges that we face with it, which I love taking that perspective that you found a way to be a bridge between these two groups that often have difficulty communicating with each other. So what about was the point where you said, I've got to write a book on this? I know, this came out in 2019. But what was the spark where you said, I'm going to do this, I'm going to write a book.
Neil Sahota
You know, it's funny, because I, I knew the book was needed. And I kind of lollygag hold on it for a couple years, just saying, like, oh, I'll do my spare time, this kind of stuff. And then you know, you never get time for it. Yeah, it's always busy. And then I just wanted to say, like, Look, slight changes going on, you know, I do a lot of work with the United Nations or focus more on that. And I actually made the decision to leave IBM, right, I had kind of taken things as far as I could, there were some other changes going on, I was like, I kind of want some time to do the stuff that I really want to do. Part of that is they I for good help people understand how we can use technology for her for society. But I'm always like, you know, I've been talking about writing this book for two years, this is my chance to just make the time and actually write the book. And that essentially became the trigger. And once they made that decision to leave, that's when I really start hunkering down and working on the show or working on the book.
Josh Steimle
Cool. And then how long did it take you to write it?
Neil Sahota
It took about eight months. So I it's my It was my first book, tons of ideas and stuff. And I was actually very fortunate that I had a co author that had written like a dozen books. So I was kind of scrambling around trying to figure stuff out and I was talking to one of my friends. He's like, you should go talk to my other friend. He's written like 12 books. So I went seeking advice from him. And he gave me some advice like that, you know, I've actually been trying to say an AI. Maybe we kind of help each other. He teach me a little about AI, and I'll teach you how to write a book. Cool.
Josh Steimle
So that's how it came about?
Neil Sahota
That's how it came about us. We collaborated. And I will tell you, it was an experience that if I tried to do on my own, it probably would have fell flat. I didn't realize how incredibly difficult it was right to write a book, and how even more difficult it is to get published.
Josh Steimle
Yep. Now I tell people that Three hard parts to writing a book. Getting Started, finishing it, and everything in between. It's it's a lot of work, isn't it?
Neil Sahota
It is. I don't think people I don't most people don't realize I didn't have a new appreciation for authors because man, it is a grind. It's a worthwhile grind. But it's still a grind.
Josh Steimle
Yeah, for sure. So what was your process? Then? It sounds like your co author was guiding you through the steps. So what was the process that he took you through? or How did he help you along this path? Because you had a lot of ideas, you had all the information? But how did you work together in a way that was productive to produce the final product,
Neil Sahota
He really kind of helped me structure the book and help kind of frame the story, right? I had lots of knowledge, lots of examples of things I had done, but they're, you know, just kind of scattershot, right, because in my mind, I think about all the things and kind of it doesn't make sense to anybody else. And so we actually spent probably a good five, six hours in a couple of different sessions, just like throwing everything out there. I there's the stories, people that I know. And then we then work together to try and say, Hey, what are some common themes and kind of structure. And so we built a very detailed outline. It took about six weeks to build a detailed outline, that detail outline was about 54 pages long.
Josh Steimle
Okay. Yeah, that is detailed. we sometimes call that a fat outline. And that one sounds like it was pretty fat.
Neil Sahota
It was, but it was immensely helpful, because it really kind of structured things out, we really talked to the flow, we talked about, how are we going to tell the story, right, that really kind of fleshed out the best way for the audience to tell the story rather than hear something and hear something? No.
Josh Steimle
And speaking of stories, were you using lots of examples from your own work and the things that you had done? Or were you doing a lot of research out there as well.
Neil Sahota
A lot of it was things that I had done things that I had known, we did a little bit of research, but I also had pulled together a lot of people from my network. So we were actually, originally we weren't the plan was to interview them just to kind of build a little content. But we were getting such rich material that we decided to actually include like interview sections. So like there's a whole section of the book dedicated to these interviews. So there were people like Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler. And Stephen Ibaraki, and you know, Ben Goertzel, big names. It was it was a combination, though, we realized that, hey, you know, you'll get a pretty good portfolio. We kind of went through a similar exercise on the interview side saying like, Okay, what industries can we hit? How can we group them together, we get the big name, then you get the small entrepreneur, right? And so it was kind of like you kind of get the thought, leader perspective, get the big business perspective. But then you get those, like, you know, there was a story about LegalMation, three lawyers don't know nothing about AI when they started. But one of building an AI associate lawyer, right. And so you're talking about like legal tech, and people don't think about well, white collar jobs. So it could be AI, they're doing some of that work. So it kind of turned into this really interesting meshing of different perspectives. But I think it helps people understand that, whether I'm a part of a big company, or I'm a solo operator, or even a government organization, I can do something.
Josh Steimle
So when you get people like Peter Diamandis, who founded the XPrize, and such, when you get big names like this, some first time authors might look at that, and they say, Well, how do you get connected with somebody like that? Is that was that through connections that you had due to your work? Or did you just reach out to him? Or did you know somebody who knew him? How does somebody go about getting big names to be part of their book?
Neil Sahota
That's a great question. It's, it's a mix. So like, I happen to already know Peter, so it was a personal reach out.
Josh Steimle
So in that case, it was a little bit easier.
Neil Sahota
A little bit easier, right? That's why you need to do it.
Josh Steimle
Were there other people that you got into the book where you had to reach out cold and it was a little bit harder to get them on board?
Neil Sahota
No, we didn't do any any cold. You know, I through my own network, if you if I don't didn't know some of the people they were willing to make introductions. Ironically, I composed a list I think of 50 people, which was gonna be way too much for the book. And we figured, well, we'll see. Asked half of them if they would participate. And they all said yes. So just like, but ironically, in the second book I'm writing right now. I am having to do some cold calling. So it's kind of boring. Trying to track down them through social media LinkedIn or find an email address and say I'm so and so writing a book on this, would you be interested in being interviewed?
Josh Steimle
Oh, cool. What's the next book going to be about?
Neil Sahota
The next book is actually a disruptive thinking. So everyone says, How do you be innovative? How do you create your own industry and ever, like think differently, I actually have a framework that I've been I was using, I created myself based on my own work as management consultant. Now you do that. And so it's we got to do with a eyes think differently. So I figured I'd just share with the world. So the book is on that, and it's on people that have either use my framework, or you look at their own stories, and you see the elements of my framework within what they did.
Josh Steimle
So do you see that as being tied to your first book as kind of a sequel? Or is it completely separate?
Neil Sahota
I guess they're separate. I mean, it's, it's complimentary. The two books will be complimentary. But it's not that oh, you know, if I don't read on the AI revolution, I can't read Neil's next book, they're not connected in that way. The second book can really be applied to anything, not just AI.
Josh Steimle
So having written the first book, a lot of people say once they read, write their first book, it's kind of like running their first marathon, they get to the end of it, and they're saying, I swear, never again, I will never do this again. But here you are writing your next book, did you go through that type of thing when you publish your first book saying never again, but then you get sucked back into it? Like everybody does? or How did that come about?
Neil Sahota
No, but you know, the funny thing about the first book is, I want to put the time crunch on it. So when the United Nations funded, I was writing this book, they said, We want to host a launch. Right? And so you know, I helped co found AI for good for them, like, we want to launch your book AI For Good, is that possible? You know, it's like, okay, it's like the end of October. And AI For Good is the first week of May. So it's just like,
Josh Steimle
Hmm, okay, well, I
Neil Sahota
I don't know, let me let me find out, which then accelerated the process of finding a publisher. And, you know, we talked to a couple of very big ones, and a couple of small ones and McGraw Hill came back and basically said, Look, we guarantee you will get the book done in time for that launch.
Josh Steimle
And that's impressive, because generally, traditional publishers, you can tack on a year or two to get that book out. But in this case, October to May, we're talking about seven, eight months, but they said, we'll take this on, we'll get it done. And they did it.
Neil Sahota
They did they did a fantastic job, too. But it was a marathon. Because now and you know, trying to finish the manuscript, it's like, I start worrying about endorsements and work on the cover art with other things, but not wants to ever say that I would never write a book again. Ironically, I was saying the opposite. There was like so much other material that could use saying, like, maybe make a companion book. Right. And then there's kind of finalizing the process again, the press for the second one. Again, all these questions about people like Well, how do you ideate it? It'd be like what you're doing. But you know, people need help figuring like the idea out. That's what triggered the idea for the second book.
Josh Steimle
Interesting. Well, you've been bitten by the bug. And so now you're an addicted author, it sounds like. So are your are you working with your co author on this one as well?
Neil Sahota
We are, we have a good collaboration. In fact, he's got an idea for a third book that will start after the second book is done.
Josh Steimle
You've already got it all planned out. The whole series.
Neil Sahota
Maybe maybe the third book is again, very different than the first two, it focuses more on art and technology.
Josh Steimle
Mm hmm. Cool. So what are some of the lessons you learned from the first book that you're able to apply to writing the second book?
Neil Sahota
Well, having the detailed outline is a must. It makes the writing process so much easier. So the more work you up front, and second, obviously, is always keep in mind who your audience is. They, I think I did a pretty good job about I'm not writing this book for me. So I have to remember who I'm writing it for, and what's going to make sense and resonate with them. I've learned that the publishing world operates like it's the 19th century. So I don't mean that it's necessarily a knock but it I think was a little surprising some of the things that came out of that like putting together a book proposal and have you come up with your own essentially your own marketing strategy and figure out the different ways you have to try and actually promote sell your book. So I mean, there was a bunch of things I was doing that I did never fathom. I wonder if having to do that like you know, getting people to help you with the the PR, trying to get on shows or podcasts and write articles, to do all these things to create more presence and awareness but book.
Josh Steimle
Right? Because you go to a publisher, you think, well, this is what they do, right? They're gonna take care of all this stuff.
Neil Sahota
I wish. I think if you're a big name, author, maybe they do, but you're all you're really on the hook. I mean, they do a good like I said, McGraw Hill did a fantastic job and getting the book ready and getting stuff set up on Amazon and all that. But when it comes to the actual promotion, marketing, the author, we're on the hook ourselves.
Josh Steimle
Yeah. Did they help out with editing in other parts of the book production process?
Neil Sahota
They did. They did the edit, they did all the fact checking. I mean, given the accelerated timeline, they were dynamos. I mean, we were really grateful, because the original thought was, maybe we just self-published the book. But with the UN launch that's probably not going to work too well.
Josh Steimle
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you want it to be good. When you go out there and the self- publishing process, that's a whole thing to learn about in and of itself.
Neil Sahota
It is. And I mean, for the most part, McGraw Hill is very good to work with, I mean, showing us different options on cover art, interior art. Although, people ask me for my second book, What's the title? I told them? I don't have a title. Because the first book there was a bit of a brouhaha over the title.
Josh Steimle
Can you tell us more about that?
Neil Sahota
Yeah. So the original title for my first book was actually Uber Yourself Before You Get Kodaked. So it's actually something my friend Peter Honda says. But I thought it really resonated really well. And I had kind of tested it out at some talks had given people really liked the title. It was memorable. But McGraw Hill absolutely hated the title. Absolutely detested it.
Josh Steimle
Now, did they just hate the title? Or were they thinking oh, this is going to be like a liability issue, because we're mentioning name company names in here. Or they just didn't like the title.
Neil Sahota
Uber actually refer to the German word, not the company. Okay. But they thought that was they get that there's like, most people might not get that. And the time there was some backlash against Uber, people may not remember who Kodak is in 10 years. And they like things that are more SEO friendly, which is why the subtitle is so long. But they wanted to actually call the book AI or die. And that was a little bit against because the book was meant to be helpful and optimistic. fearmongering Yeah, that kind of sounds like something bad happening, right? Yeah. So we kind of, but you know, technically McGraw Hill can call the book, whatever they want. They have that. Right.
Josh Steimle
Right. They bought it right?
Neil Sahota
Yeah. So they're both they were very nice. And say like, well, what's more, we'll work with you and figure on the table that works for both of us. And so for a week, we kind of went back and forth, pitching ideas talking through before we were sold on Own The AI Revolution.
Josh Steimle
Cool, thank you for sharing that. I think a lot of first time authors don't realize that when you go and get a traditional publisher, they buy the book, they own the book, it's their book, and they can do whatever they want with it. But of course, they want to work with you. They don't want you going out and bad mouth in your book after it gets out there something so there is that natural incentive to work with the author, which you showed through your story. So that's great. So the next time around, I can we assume that your next book is going to be coming out with McGraw Hill again?
Neil Sahota
Yeah, they have the option on it. And we're very excited to work on it. But that's reason why I don't have a title for it. I figured we'll have to figure that piece out with that.
Josh Steimle
So when you say an option, again, for first-time authors who have never heard of an option, how did that come about? How did that work in your case?
Neil Sahota
Well, when we actually you're negotiating the original book deal, you know, they voted me out. And so my, my credentials, my background, my access, so they actually said, Look, we're gonna give you probably a little bit better deal than we normally give first time authors. But part of that is we want an option on your next book. So we get the first right of refusal on it. So they're kind of saying like, Look, we're making a bit of an investment in you. Obviously, we're working really hard to make this deadline. But we're hoping this will be a long term collaboration. And I'm aware, it's really exciting that the fact that it really simplified the process of finding a publisher for the second book.
Josh Steimle
Yeah, you don't have to write that proposal letter all over again, and do that all over again. So now, like you said, they have the first right of refusal, but they could refuse. They could say, you know what, we don't want to publish this next book that you've proposed to us, and then they could release you from the option and then you could go self publish or pitch it to a new publisher, right?
Neil Sahota
That's right. It doesn't seem like they're leaning that way. But if they were then obviously have to start the whole process. But I'm hoping that with one book under my belt, it'll be a little easier the second time around with a new publisher,
Josh Steimle
you would think so right. And in terms of how the book has done since it came out last year, have you been satisfied with the results? Did it meet your expectations?
Neil Sahota
It did way better than I could have ever dreamed. It beat McGraw Hill's sales projections. So they were enthused by that. We've gotten lots of rave reviews. I actually know people that they bought a copy; or people I don't even know bought a copy and told me it was so good. So well-written they bought a copy for like their 80-year-old dad or their teenage daughter to read as well. And we won Soundviews best business book for 2019.
Josh Steimle
That's great. That's got to feel pretty good.
Neil Sahota
Like I said, it was way better than I ever would have imagined. I was happy to get the book and I just hoped would help people. But given the kind of feedback, and when that award, I mean, though, I was stoked. I mean, as a first time author, I was totally stoked.
Josh Steimle
So given that McGraw Hill did not do the marketing for the book, how did you get the word out?
Neil Sahota
That's a great question, Josh. I did a series of things. So I leveraged some PR. So I hooked on with a New York agency that came recommended for a couple of months, you know, booked me on some, like, shows whether it was like broadcast or digital. I started writing Forbes articles. So I write about different topics the book touches upon as a way to kind of seed the book.
Josh Steimle
So you're a Forbes contributor, is that right?
Neil Sahota
That's right. Yeah. I started doing podcast interviews. But yeah, I also kind of hit the speaking circuit. So I had a lot of contacts in some of these organizations like IEEE, American Marketing Institute, American Market Association, financial executive Institute, YPO. And so through there, you know, talk to audiences, you know, 8200 people, but it was a way to at least connect and get some of the stuff out there. And that really seemed to help. And I encoand urage people that if you like the book, to leave a review, please. But please, tell you tell your friends. And so I actually had people that who saw me talk to you, but all she posts on social media, holding my books, I just read Neil's book, it is it is awesome. I recommend everyone read it. And they would actually cite a couple of things that got from the book, which I thought was amazing.
Josh Steimle
That's great. So was there anything that surprised you about the reception of the book in terms of who was interested in it perhaps or places that it took you?
Neil Sahota
A couple a couple of it was, I thought I would get a lot of business leaders that when I was the audience, probably people that are, you know, managers and directors. But I was actually getting also a lot of like people that were in government agencies in a that was the UN connection. But a lot of hits from people that run like accelerators and incubators and progress program for like high school students, or even OSHA. The issue was that they have that lifelong learning program, I can't remember what it's called. OLLI, OLLI, that's what it is. And so I was seeing a much different diverse mix of audience members. And I really thought I think we did well with the niche. But I think the expansion generally was way better than I could have actually imagined. And I think a good chunk of that came from just doing the exposure kind of hitting the pavement so to speak. As I would have thought you put the book out, the publisher takes care of it. No, not at all. And I you know, I even set up a website for the book, which was something I hadn't thought about. And that was kind of a good funnel for people to find me and say, Hey, can you come speak to come do a webinar about your book or something like that? So I learned how to create kind of a funnel model to support the book.
Josh Steimle
Gotcha. Well, it sounds like it worked pretty well. Are you taking steps to set more of that up ahead of time for your next book?
Neil Sahota
Yeah. I've learned my lesson this time Josh so already planning the website this time a little bit better where I'm creating like little video snippets about the book so that you know people get a little more information hopefully create a better better funnel this time cuz I had no clue my first time around.
Josh Steimle
Well, yeah, I imagine since you had such good results the first time without having a clue this time now that you have a clue. McGraw Hill should be that much more excited about publishing your second book. Right.
Neil Sahota
They seem that way. But I'm crossing my fingers. And I want to jinx anything here.
Josh Steimle
Yep. So with your first book, you said the ideal audience or the target audience, was these business executives that needed to understand AI? For a second book? Is it the same target audience or has that shifted?
Neil Sahota
I it sort of is, but it actually works for any kind of general audience. So you don't have to necessarily just disrupt your business, you can disrupt your personal life, your community, there are things I think everybody wants to do, everyone's gonna got a pain point, or something like this. Like, I feel like there's something I can do here. That book works for everybody like that young and old. Now, I can't market it that way, I don't have that kind of time or resources. But at least what I found is you hit you hit the traction with your niche audience and then build from there. So I think this is not being just like AI focused. It'll appeal to a broader set of people, because I think I see a lot of people out there just wondering like, you know, I must have a billion dollar idea, how do I unlock it? Right? This is a tool to actually help you do that.
Josh Steimle
That's what everybody wants to know. Right? I hope so. When do you anticipate that the second book will be out?
Neil Sahota
We're targeting to try and get it out, published out there by summer of next year. So I'm about 90%, done with the manuscript. You know, McGraw Hill is starting their their process and so stuck in some of the Dorfman's some other things in place, but a little bit more runway this time for the publication cycle.
Josh Steimle
Yeah, this time, you're not gonna sign up for a un event and have that be your deadline? Right?
Neil Sahota
Well, it's interesting you say that, Josh, because he has a huge event in June, where somebody helped them build called the innovation factory. They're like, it'd be really great to launch your book at that innovation factory event. And I'm like, uh, we'll see. We'll try our best but I don't know if we'll even have we'll have in person events that big. By the summer.
Josh Steimle
Yeah, yeah. Everything's kind of up in the air these days with COVID in this pandemic, right?
Neil Sahota
Yeah, unfortunately, but it's a good opportunity to read some more good books.
Josh Steimle
Yeah, exactly. I actually saw that book sales have gone up since the pandemic started. There are a lot of people out there who they're tired of binge watching Netflix, I guess. And they're saying, I guess I need to just read more books. Do something stimulate the mind.
Neil Sahota
Hey, I believe in I think we all have Xoom fatigue, and we're tired of staring at a computer screen.
Josh Steimle
Yeah, yeah. Well, hey, thank you so much, Neil, for sharing these details today. What's the best place for people to find you? Well,
Neil Sahota
if you want to find me or ask what's going on, you can go to my website, which is just by name, Neil soda calm. Or you can follow me on LinkedIn, Twitter, or Instagram. So I'm at Neil underscore Hooda. And I'm constantly putting out content and new stuff. So we'd love to hear people's ideas, especially with the next book coming out, so feel free to reach out.
Josh Steimle
Great, thank you so much. Again, Neil's book, his own AI revolution already out and he's got another book title to be determined. That'll be coming out next year. Thank you so much, Neil, for being with us here today.
Neil Sahota
It My pleasure, Josh. I had a blast. If
Josh Steimle
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