Imposter Syndrome Halted Writer's Work. Now His Book Has 100s Of Five-Star Reviews
Marcus Whitney has experienced a lot of failure in his life. He dropped out of college, waited on tables and, as a born entrepreneur, spent considerable periods working for other people.
Yet it was the lessons learned from all these setbacks that allowed Marcus to pass on invaluable, practical advice in his best-selling new book Create and Orchestrate: The Path to Claiming Your Creative Power From an Unlikely Entrepreneur.
His current resume indicates an unqualified success. He’s a founding partner of venture capital firm Jumpstart Health Investors. He hosts a livestream interview show and a podcast. He’s a part owner of the Major League Soccer team Nashville Soccer Club and a board member of several Nashville institutions including the Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum.
A UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE ON ENTREPRENEURSHIP
Marcus’s winding, diverse path to entrepreneurial success and his real-world MBA gives him a unique perspective not found in most business books.
“These books cover things like taking something from a hypothesis to a real business, but none of them cover how you run a business. Like what are the day-to-day blocking, tackling, fist-fighting aspects of really running a business,” he says. “I especially didn’t see that book in the growing canon of startup venture capital books. So I thought I wanted to start writing that book.”
What he didn’t know is it would take five years to write the book. Things started well with a Kickstarter campaign that raised $30,000 from 400 backers.
“But I had no idea how to write a book or how difficult it is to write a book,” he says. It also took him two-and-a-half years to overcome his unwillingness to write about his failures.
THE FAILURES ARE WHAT MAKE HIS BOOK GREAT
“The failures are the thing that are gonna make the book great,” he realized. “Many of the chapters start with a failure story. And the big lesson that comes from them is me talking about my philosophy or imparting information. Here’s some real information that can help you avoid making the mistakes I did.”
During this period, Marcus also suffered from a serious bout of imposter syndrome, causing him to stop working on the book for about 11 months.” He finally rented a remote cabin and locked himself in for a week to get the writing juices flowing again.
Now, his book is generating five-star reviews on Amazon from readers thankful for having entrepreneurship explained and demystified. “The business world puts up a lot of smoke signals and screens. But it’s actually not that complicated,” he says. “It’s great to have this (book) that can sort of take the place of mentoring sessions. It’s better than most mentoring sessions I could offer to somebody in a 30-minute window.”
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Marcus Whitney
Welcome to the Published Author Podcast where we help entrepreneurs learn how to write a book and leverage it to grow their business and make an impact. I'm your host Josh Steimle. Today our guest is Marcus Whitney. Marcus is a founding partner of Jumpstart Health Investors, a venture capital firm focused on the healthcare space with a portfolio of over 100 companies. But before he became a successful entrepreneur, he was a college dropout and worked as a waiter. Marcus now has been featured in outlets like Inc,TechCrunch, Fast Company, in The Atlantic, and he's the author of the best selling book Create And Orchestrate about claiming your creative power through entrepreneurship. Marcus is also the producer and host of Marcus Whitney Live a livestream interview show. And Marcus Whitney's Audio Universe, a podcast. Marcus is also co-founder and part owner of a Major League Soccer team, the Nashville Soccer Club. Marcus is also a member of the board of the Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum, the Nashville Convention and Visitors Corporation, Instruction Partners, and and Arts Commissioner for the city of Nashville. That's a mouthful. Marcus, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, Josh.
Josh Steimle
All right. So let's get your life story out here a bit because you've got a lot of impressive accomplishments. And we, of course, want to talk about your book and what happened to motivate that. But where did you grow up? Who are you? And how did you end up being a venture capitalist, and entrepreneur, and doing all this stuff?
Marcus Whitney
Yeah, so I was born and raised in Brooklyn, New York, a neighborhood inside of Brooklyn called East Flatbush, affectionately referred to as a two-fair zone because there's no subway anywhere close to where my house is. So generally speaking, I took the bus to get most places. And I grew up there until I graduated high school and left for left for college. So it was a great place to be raised. Because, you know, so diverse and New York obviously in in so many ways, center of art, fashion, music, business, so many other things. So I got to, you know, be influenced by all of those things. I was really into sports growing up, I was a wrestlers, was a state champ, you know, wrestler in high school and, you know, really loves sports. And yeah, it was just a great, great place to grow up. My my parents, you know, stayed together. And and I had, I had a great, great upbringing. And yeah, you know, Brooklyn was was sort of a big part of who I am today. I now live in Nashville, and I've been here for 20 years. And when I moved here in the year 2000. You know, Nashville was not what it is today. It was it was just at the inflection point. And starting to become what it is today. They had just cleaned up downtown Nashville, had just brought two professional sports franchises to town that the Tennessee Titans, which used to be the Houston Oilers, and also the Nashville Predators, a National Hockey team in the southeast United States, which are sort of like crazy, you know, outside of, you know, Tampa Bay. And so, you know, it was a it was the beginning of something great, but it was still very, very much a town not really a city yet.
Josh Steimle
Now, why were you even looking at Nashville being from New York? How do you end up saying, I think I'm gonna move to Tennessee?
Marcus Whitney
Yeah, so it really was the the wandering part of my life, which I basically consider from 17, to 24. There was a seven-year window of wandering, that started with me going to the University of Virginia. And instead of focusing on architecture, which is what I was there to do, I focused on hip hop and hanging out. And that led me to dropping out in my junior year. I continue to pursue hip hop as what I thought would be a career, but it was really just I prefer to have fun with my friends then to actually take life, you know, seriously. I move to Northern Virginia for a little while, you know, way to tables and continue to record music. Went back home to New York for short spell with my tail between my legs, and you know, realize I needed to kind of get my life together.
Josh Steimle
So you're kind of finding yourself during this time?
Marcus Whitney
Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. And then also realized, I really couldn't stay home, you know, what I mean? Like, my parents were, like, frustrated with me. And, and, and I just didn't want to be there in the middle of that. And I also kind of started to really like the south from the time that I was was down in Virginia.
Josh Steimle
How did your parents feel about this? And did you have siblings and what were they doing?
Marcus Whitney
Well, all my siblings were older. I'm the I'm the baby of the family. And so, you know, and my siblings are much older. So, you know, I was kind of an older child and a lot of ways. And, you know, I think everyone was just sort of like one day he'll get his head on straight you know. Like right now . . . . I think everyone just sort of knew that I was finding myself and nobody gave me too much of a hard time about it. But I think they all were probably shaking their head a bunch, when they were asking, like, What is he doing? You know what I mean?
Josh Steimle
My parents asked the same questions. I'm the youngest by seven years in my family, too. So yeah, relate to what you're talking about.
Marcus Whitney
Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's kind of a weird thing. And I picked up I moved down to Atlanta. I was down there for three years, that was where I met my ex wife. But it's where I started my family. And that was the that was the beginning of the end of the wandering years. We moved from Atlanta to Nashville, because she spent her high school years in and in Nashville and had a best friend here and some familiarity, and some affinity for the city. I didn't know anything about it had never been here before. But was still sort of in that young, I'll pick up and move anywhere, you know, part of my life. And when I got here, everything, I think really started to get serious, you know. We got here, we were living in a week to week motel, I was able to very quickly get two jobs as a waiter. And so you know, was able to pay for food and, and roof over our heads, but had one kid another one on the way. And you know, I don't know, getting here and sort of being completely out of my element. And just working six and a half days a week . . . . it really just pretty much grounded me into this reality. Okay, I'm a full blown adult. Now, you know, whatever I thought I was doing as a kid is over. You know, I now have kids I have to take care of. And it just, it just sort of anchored me into really making progress professionally. And so I taught myself how to code. Just just buying books and practicing at home over an eight-month period. And I got my first job as a junior software developer the day after my second son was born in April 2021. And so that's that's kind of the beginning of, you know, my true adult life.
Josh Steimle
So April 2001, you got your first job as a programmer, right?
Marcus Whitney
Yes. Yes.
Josh Steimle
So this is right, when the.com crash is happening. And all these tech companies are going out of business. So perfect timing, right?
Marcus Whitney
Yes, perfect timing, actually, the company that I went to work for a company called Hillstream. I don't think this is urban legend. I think it's true, I think they were the last IPO before the bust. Wow. Yeah. And so yeah, you know, I got there. Thankfully, they were still they were making real money. They were a healthcare education technology company. So they were making real money.
Josh Steimle
So they actually had a business they actually they actually had something people wanted to buy, unlike so many other companies back then.
Marcus Whitney
I you know, it's so funny how I just take that for granted. Because I could have wound up in you know, a pets.com, right, you know, but I was I was in a real company that actually had real customers and real value, and was able to keep that job, and then develop my career over the next seven years, sort of moving closer and closer towards being in a startup. Eventually, in 2003 I was the the fifth employee at an email marketing company called Emma, and built that technology platform out, built out a team, so at learn how to become a manager, earn some equities, while learning what that was all about. And that was like my first success in the startup world and kind of never looked back from that point. Really, you know, got bit by the startup bug while I was there.
Josh Steimle
That's cool. So what was the next step after that you're now working in a startup now, where you're doing the coding, or were you more like the founder of this?
Marcus Whitney
So I was in between, right? I was not the founder, the company had been alive for a year, they had built the first version of the software that was based, effectively a prototype, I mean, it works. But when I got there, it was like kind of falling down on top of itself, they couldn't get mail out the door. And so the first six months, I was there, I spent engaged in a full on rewrite, sort of under the gun, kind of a, you know, save-the-company kind of moment. And I think coming out on the other side of that was when, you know, they said, okay, you know, we're gonna build a team underneath you now and grant you some equity and sort of all that stuff. So I was not a founder, but I was a very early partner. And, and I started as a coder. And by the end, I was writing no code, I was leading a team. And so it was a big maturation process for me professionally. 2007, I left to start my first business, which was just a development agency. And it was a it was a big shift in my life, because, you know, I left the company, and and then two months later, my wife and I got separated. And so there was this whole sort of life change happening. My parents had moved down to Nashville, you know, from from New York, so they've retired. So it's really massive you know, shift in life on a bunch of different fronts. And I was starting a business and also, you know, 2007 2008 it was the recession was happening. So tons of life activity happening at that time. But the business did well. You know, I was able to build a 10-person team, we got over a million dollars in revenue. And that was really the beginning of me, you know, realizing I wanted to be on this path of being an entrepreneur for the rest of my life. Well, I'll take some commitment, because I've run a marketing agency for 20 years. And we started out as a development shop. And one of my mentors, he told me, he sat me down when I was going when I was leaving his company to start and he's like, don't do this, you will hate this business. Clients are the worst! He's like it's not scalable, like, you'll lose so much money. And I was like, No, I'm gonna do this, this will be great. And now I look back. And sometimes I'm like, you know, he kind of knew what he was talking about. I still love it. I love this business. But yeah, he had some good points there, too. Oh, yeah. I mean, for me, I didn't stay in it long. Because I, I fell prey to, you know, one of many mistakes you can make, and I write about it in the book, concentration risk, you know, I had the one client that just kept growing and raising money and eating up more resources. And then next thing I knew, like, I was working for them, you know.
Josh Steimle
And 80% of your revenue, and then you're like, Wait a second, now I just have a job.
Marcus Whitney
That's right. That's right. And, and it was also like, the beginning of me, understanding just how much there was to this whole entrepreneur thing, you know, um, I never really had proper mentorship or it and certainly not training in how to run a business. I left because I left Emma, the email marketing company where I was head of technology I left because, you know, I wanted what they had, which was I wanted to be the boss, I wanted to be on those, you know, those, those walks that they took that no one else got to be privy to where they were making all the decisions. And, you know, I wanted all those things. And then, you know, when I got there, to where I was running the show, I just realized, Oh, my God, the level of responsibility and challenge and difficulty is so much greater than I ever anticipated.
Josh Steimle
And you're thinking, I'm gonna get rid of my boss, and then you realize, wait, now I have 50 bosses. They all think they're the only boss.
Marcus Whitney
Yes, and no one is looking out for me. You know what I mean? And so it was really the beginning of me . . . .It was probably the beginning of the book for me. Because going through that process, I started to just realize, wow, this is this is incredibly difficult. And it's it's multi-dimensional, what it means to run a business, there's, there were huge gaps in my understanding around basic things like finance. I remember, you know, I'm hiring a team, and I'm doing payroll, and like, I didn't know what payroll taxes were, you know. And so, like, my budgets were totally blown, you know, because I literally just didn't even project payroll taxes. And then, you know, halfway through the year, my accountant was, like, I'm so so you've got . . . .
Josh Steimle
You've got like, a couple 100 grand saved somewhere. Right? Right. And you're right, you're like, Wait, what?
Marcus Whitney
Exactly, exactly. And the lesson and the hits kept coming, man, you know, the those kinds of lessons kept on coming and, and I started to just get this sense that I was going to be learning these lessons for a long time, they were going to be hard, they were gonna hurt. But I was learning and i was growing. And I was, you know, getting that real-world MBA people talk about and so I ended up having to fold that company into a venture-backed startup. So I was not an entrepreneur for about four years. Again, I was back into a job situation, but but nights and weekends on the side, I was I was working on a tech accelerator, which laid the foundation for what I do today in venture capital. It was it was right, you know, TechStars had launched in 2007, Y Combinator in 2005. So, in 2009, when when my agency sort of folded into this, this, this other company that was originally my client, I started working on jumpstart foundry with with my partner, Vic Gatto, who, who was a venture capitalist for over a decade. And we were we were running this tech accelerator nights and weekends, you know, which kind of led me still feel like I had a little bit of an entrepreneurial edge to things and over the course of four years as the venture-backed company didn't do so well, our accelerator did did well and it gave me a great you know, foundation to start being in the venture capital business. So in 2014, I left that company and I went in full time as a partner in Jumpstart Foundry And we we change to a healthcare early stage pre-seed venture capital fund. I've been doing that for the last six plus years. You know, we now have, by the end of this year, we'll have over 100 million in assets and management, over 100 portfolio companies. And it's been great. It's been a lot of fun. Awesome, thanks so much for telling that story. So now let's get to the book. Where did the book come in? At what point did you say, I need to write a book about this? Or I want to write a book. Was this a dream you had always had to write a book? Or was it an idea that somebody planted? or How did it come about? No, it really hit right as I made the transition into full time, venture capital, because I was now talking to all these entrepreneurs, I was seeing all these blind spots that that, you know, that I knew from experience that they didn't see yet. They didn't know. And I was I had also spent a lot of time studying a lot of the emerging or leading thought leadership works in entrepreneurship. You know, Steve Blank's customer development, you know, process and theory, Eric Ries, Lean Startup, the business model canvas and Business Model Generation book by strategizer. So I was reading all these things, and they were really cool. And I don't want to say that they were academic, because they weren't, but they, they sort of covered Okay, like, how do you take something from a hypothesis to a real business, so none of them covered how you run a business. You know, like, what it is what the day to day blocking, tackling, fist fighting aspect of running a business really is. And what are the what are the aspects of your own personality that will get in the way? And, you know, how do you deal with the mindset, you know, challenges that come with it? You know, I didn't see that book. And, and I especially didn't see that book in the, you know, in the, in the growing canon of startup venture capital, you know, works that were out there. And so I sort of just was like, I want to start writing that book, I want to start writing that book. So what I did was 2015, I initiated the Kickstarter, because I was like, I know, I want to do it, but do other people want this book, you know, if they do that, I'll then I'll set out on the process of writing it. So so we got to Kickstarter across the line a little over $30,000 in backers, and, you know, close to 400 backers, and that was like, Okay, here we go, let's, let's start to write the book, and then started the very, very long process of figuring out that I had no idea how to write a book. And how difficult it is to write a book.
Josh Steimle
It's like starting a business, isn't it?
Marcus Whitney
It is like starting a business. And so, so that's what I've been doing the last five years, you know, I did that Kickstarter in 2015. I published the book in 2020. It took me five years to put the book together. And, you know, some of that was the process of learning how to write a book. Some of that was, I hadn't learned all the lessons that the book required yet. And, I still had some living to do to sort of get it all done. So I did things like I wrote, you know, I wrote a newsletter, you know, every week, you know, for the backers, and, you know, did other things. It was part of why I initiated a podcast, to kind of create additional value while I was in this process, you know, of putting the book together, because I just did not want to put out a bad book. I didn't think, okay, it's my first book, I'm going to do like an absolutely great book. I was like, I want to do a very, very good book, you know, and I knew I would keep looking at it and reading and like, this is not a very good book yet, you know, so it took me five years to get to something that, you know, every time I look at it, I'm like, okay, mission accomplished; that, you know, that was that was worth the backers, investment in me.
Josh Steimle
I've been in that same boat with you. I did a Crowdfunding campaign as well. And yeah, you get the money upfront. And then you're like, well, now I'm committed, I'm gonna do this book, and it'll be done in six months. And then at six months, you're like, Oh, I don't have the book. And I've got all these people who paid me for it, I got to give them something. And so you start coming up with all ideas, and I launched a course and yeah, you start doing all this stuff to give them value anything but actually finishing the book.
Marcus Whitney
That's right. And and, you know, there's, when I did the Kickstarter, the thing I didn't know was that I was not an author. I had to become an author, I had to evolve and develop and I had to . . . you know, I guess the book is probably 54 or so 1000 words or whatever. And, you know this, I mean, I wrote probably 150,000 words to get to the 54,000 that are in the book, right? And so it's, it's it's sort of this weird combination of anything but finished the book but at the same time, there is this process of, you know, if you don't want to put out a piece of junk, you do have to get the reps in. And you do have to learn how to structure a book, you do have to learn how to write compelling chapters. You know, if to learn that stuff. And it, I don't know if I was fast or slow in that process, but I know. I am a, I'm an author now, you know. I am an author today, I was not an author when I when I set out to do this thing.
Josh Steimle
Yeah. Or I might say you were always an author, but you weren't necessarily a writer. I mean, there's a difference between . . .. I mean, just because you write something doesn't make you a writer, there are people out there who are professional writers, and they know that craft, and they know how to do it. And that doesn't mean that you can't write a book if you're not a writer, but it does make it harder if you're not a professional writer. At any point, did you love that? Did you ever think about hiring a ghostwriter or somebody else to help you with and just do it for you. And you could just speak to them or something
Marcus Whitney
So many times, and I was just so I was so disgusted by the thought. You know, because . . . . and when I look at this book that has like my face on it, right? Like I am, I know what it was that disgusted me about the thought, right? It's, it's that I wanted this moment where, you know, when I'm talking to somebody, I'm like, you know, what, I'm gonna send you a copy of the book, and I write, you know, a little note to them, and I package it up, and I send the book to them. I'm sending them five years, really, probably 20 plus years of my life, right, but but they're my words, my words, you know what I mean? And yes, there was a professional editor, thank God. But, you know, they're not they're not ghostwritten. You know, it's, it's . . . I'm giving them all of that effort, and all of that pain to arrive at this at this product. So, yeah, I, I know, people who got their books out faster than I did by using the ghostwriter thing. But I don't think on the other side of it, you can say you're a writer, you know? I'm so proud to be able to say, I am a writer, you know, and to know, I now have that skill, you know. And I've used it I mean, I look, I wrote an open letter last June, that resulted, you know, that resulted in a new fund that I'm raising is really the quality of the writing is what did it you know, not that I just decided that I wanted to do it, it's the quality of the writing. So yeah . . .
Josh Steimle
You felt that sense of ownership, and you wanted it to be 100%? or as close to 100%? yours?
Marcus Whitney
Absolutely. Absolutely. So tell us a little bit more about your process. You said you were writing newsletters. You were creating other content that you knew you could put in the book, you're finding ways to get it out there? How did it start to come together? Like, did you make a lot of progress at first, and then you had to backtrack? Or did you start with an outline? Or did you just start writing stuff down? Like, what was your process like, of building this book? Architecting this book? Yeah, so the first five months, were just me out in the wilderness writing these things. And, and it was mostly brain dumping, it was not writing, it was like me getting the ideas out of my head. And I'm writing these words, but they have no structure. You know what I mean? There's no structure to it. At a certain point, I realized I don't know how to write a book. And so I actually hired a writer to help me frame the book. And what she did, was she taught me how to structure the book. You know, where, you know, it starts and it's got kind of a, you know, a . . . . she taught me what the spine of a book was, she taught me how to like ramp into it, and then how to like, descend and get to the end. She taught me how to set up structure for chapters, like, okay, every chapter is going to be x amount of words, and it's going to have this, this and this, and you can, you can, of course, move away from that. But you know, having that structure helps you to get through it. And then you can say, okay, in these two chapters of these 12, I want to move away from that a little bit. But for the most part, every . . . . all the chapters will have this structure to it. And it actually helps the reader because they start to kind of get used to your structure and they say, Okay, now I know how to navigate the book, and I know how to like, digest the book, right? So she taught me that and she helped me to come up with the version one of the table of contents that, with the exception of a few tweaks, was the final table of contents, you know, from from a chapter-listing perspective. Then I went on another sprint of writing and was able to deliver some of the chapters reasonably well, others just not at all. And then I just stopped because I was going through some difficult things business-wise, and I actually had a serious bout of imposter syndrome. And so I just sort of stopped for probably like 11 months, just like didn't, you know, didn't write the book, got to the other side of that, and then reapproached it and said, You know what, I have to, like, get out of this space completely. And so I rented a cabin, about an hour and a half away from my house for a week. And I went to this cabin, and I did not leave, like I didn't go on like hikes. And you know, fishing, I just went and locked myself in this room. It's interesting how common this story is, with authors that they're like, at some point, I just had to get away. Matthew McConaughey was just . . . . I was listening to an interview about his book, green lights. And he was saying, This is what he did. He went out in the wilderness disconnected for two weeks and just got it all out. Yeah, yeah. And it works. It works. I mean, I came on, I came out on the other side of that, and I probably had the alpha of the book, you know, the proper alpha of the book. And that was, that was probably December of 2018. And then it was a year of kind of refining that. And I probably rewrote one or two of the chapters. And then, then I was like, Okay, this is as far as I can take it. And I don't have a publisher. So now I got to figure out the, like, how I'm actually going to get this thing to the next level. I was on a Facebook group called Write and Rant, that a friend of mine, Mitch Joel runs, and that was when I first heard about Scribemedia, and ended up, you know, working with them. And that was when I got editing and professional book design and all that other kind of stuff. Right. And, and that took it from where it was to the, to the to the final, you know, piece. So that's, you know, that was that was my process. Got it live June of last year, obviously, that was also crazy because, you know, there's no book tour, there's no public speaking because of COVID-19. So I actually was able to, like slip in a letter that acknowledged that, hey, I have no idea what the world is going to look like, you know, because of COVID-19. But I still think entrepreneurship is going to be really, really important. So I hope that this book is helpful, you know, in in whatever we're going to do to rebuild the world. And, yeah, you know, I am so grateful for the way that everything turned out, it was very painful to go through it, especially in those periods of inactivity or insecurity, but the quality of the product. And I actually even think the timing, was better than I could have planned for, you know, in the beginning, so . . .
Josh Steimle
So what was it like working with scribe media, they're very well known in the industry. You're the first author I've interviewed who's worked with them. So I'm curious to hear more about how you found them, why you chose to work with them, and what that experience was like?
Marcus Whitney
Yeah, so, um, so the the post . . . and I think it was Mitch, who, who posted the thing about scribe, you know, Mitch is just someone who, who I trust, He's, uh, you know, he's sort of, you know, a legend in the digital media space. And he posted something very, very favorable about them. And I don't even think it was because he had worked with them, I think it's because he knew Tucker Max, and you know, just really, like, appreciate the company. So I went and checked it out. And, you know, I just, I signed up for an intro call. And I just thought that for what they were offering, it really hit all of the points that I needed for where I was, right, which was I've got this really solid manuscript that is rough, you know. It needs a real copy editing pass, what I found out was it needed a real editing pass, not just copy editing, but a real editing pass, it needed to be edited. And there was all these other things that I just didn't want to deal with. And then all the things I didn't even know about, you know, in the book publishing process, and so I feel that I got to have the experience that I would have had had, I worked with a top-tier publisher for whom you would get a book deal with, except I paid them to do the work, and I own the book. 100%. So, you know, for me, it was it was a really good deal. You know . . .
Josh Steimle
You might have actually had a better experience than you would have had with a traditional publisher.
Marcus Whitney
That's . . . you know, I can't compare through my own personal experience. But I have been . . . . I've, you know, I've talked to people who were talking about self publishing, and I've said, Listen, you know, they're not the cheapest option out there. But if you have the budget for it, it is an exceptional experience, they do a fantastic job with project management, the quality is very, very high, and it will improve the, it will improve the end product you put out in the world, you know, which is probably one of the most important things is that without them, I really don't believe I would be as proud of this product as I am, you know. I feel like I would put this book up against, you know, any business book that, you know, Simon and Schuster Penguin, or any of those folks have put out. I mean, I think it's that good. And I think they have a lot to do with that, you know. What, what they brought to the table is a big part of that.
Josh Steimle
Cool, awesome. So then what is the reception been? Like, the book's out there, people are reading it, people are buying it. How's that going?
Marcus Whitney
Better than I could have hoped for. It's, it's been fantastic. You know, the book is this combination of me telling the story of the last 20 years of my life, which in and of itself, you know, I just shared some with you with, with you and with your listeners. So, you know, it's it's a bit of a novel story, you know, college dropout, waiting tables, new town, you know, all you know, and then fast forward on the other side of it . . . It's it's, you know, healthcare, venture capitalists and pro sports team owner. So it's a bit of a novel story. There's not a million stories like that that are out there, then there's, but but along the way, a lot of it is me talking about failures. Because the failures were when I got the biggest lessons, you know, and so I made a point . . . And I don't think I would have been willing, this is another thing about the time that I took to write the book. I would say, in the first two and a half years that I was working on the book, I don't think I was in a headspace where I would have been as willing to talk about the failures, I think I turned the corner in about year three, where I was like, No, the failures are the thing, like that's the thing that's gonna make the book great is when I am an honest about it. And so I talk quite a bit about about failures, you have several chapters, every chapter with the exception of to really start with a story. And many of the chapters start with a failure story. And they and that the big lesson that comes out of it then sets up me talking about other my philosophy or actual information that I'm trying to impart on this person with the idea, you don't want to make this mistake if you don't have to, right. So here's some, here's some of my philosophies around this, that I've learned through this experience. Or here's some real information that can help you avoid making that mistake. So, you know, people who have never started a business, as well as people who I was even talking to somebody yesterday who has been in business for themselves for, you know, the last five years. But there's a particular chapter that I wrote on venture capital, where she was like, that was so helpful, because like you demystified this thing that's so mystical, and I couldn't really tell how it worked, whether or not it was for me, or should I be considering it, and you just like, totally broke it down. So people have have responded incredibly well to it. You know, I haven't done any tricks to kind of get reviews and the Amazon reviews are averaging I think 4.9 stars over 100 at this point. So yeah, it's the response has been really, really great. And, and it's just great to have this body of work now, that can sort of take the place of mentoring sessions. And you know, it's, it's, it's better than most mentoring sessions I could offer to somebody in a 30-minute window, you know, and so I love that about it. Right, because you've concentrated all the experience and knowledge and stories and everything into this well-polished book that you can get out to people, which saves you hours and hours of time, because otherwise, you'd have to sit down with every single startup that you invest in and explain it all over again, right? That's right. That's exactly right. So during those five years that you were working on the book, were you ever concerned that somebody was going to come out with that book that you were writing or something that would kind of compete with it and take the wind out of your sails and make you feel like, well, now they wrote and they kind of covered this? What a great question. Um, I have to say that there are probably aspects of the book, there are probably chapters within the book that I had those concerns about, but as a total package, no, I . . . I think that's because I knew that a portion of the book was going to be my story and I knew enough about my story to know it's it's relatively really unique. And that's kind of been what how I've how I've that's been the direction I've taken as an entrepreneur, certainly over the last five years, is, I have a chapter in the book that's called Different Is Better Than Better, you know. And what all I really mean by that is each one of us is uniquely qualified in something, to do something. And the more that you can lean into that and concentrate on that, the more you won't have to worry about being in a crowded market, you know. And so, yeah, that was never really a big concern of mine, I was much more afraid that I wouldn't get the thing done. That that was the real fear not not that someone else was going to come out and steal the thunder of the book. Yeah. Were there other books that like you said, there was no book out there that did what you wanted your book to do. But were there other books that you used as kind of a guide, or a template, or . . . .sometimes I call them your hero book, it's that book that you look and say, I want to write this book, but different in these ways? Were there any other books that you looked towards as kind of mentoring you along the process of creating your own book? Yes. And it was inspiring in a muse way more than I want to write this book, but with this different change. So the Four-Hour Workweek, for me, is an incredible book because of the execution, not even because of like what's in it. But the execution of the book is just remarkable, I think, and what it did for Tim Ferriss his life, you know. And it is so counterintuitive, and it's so irreverent. And it just was really . . . and I don't think I achieved the same level of those two characteristics that he did, partially because I'm just, it wasn't my objective. But I love the way that he structured the book and the way that he had no problem slaughtering sacred cows. And that, you know, that he did give me the courage in parts of the book where I was, where I did get a little concerned about, you know, what will people think, like, in the very first chapter, I kind of, you know, I kind of go after higher education. And, and, you know, Now, obviously, you know, in a COVID-19 world, everyone's like, really putting a strong lens at higher education. But, you know, I am making a fundamental argument that entrepreneurship is the is the great equalizer of our of our era, not education, unfortunately. And it's really just because of the way that education has evolved as an industry. It's predatory, quite frankly, you know, that you can't justify . . . generally speaking, you cannot justify the ROI for the average American family and higher education, you just can't do it anymore. And, you know, the way that he went after many of the conventions of the business world in that book, it was, it was a . . . that I admired that, you know, I admired that and, and I aspired to, to bring that same spirit into this book. You know, I wanted this book, to be a book that if somebody read it, who did not prior to reading it, have a solid understanding of the business world, that they would after reading it. Because what I was trying to do was say, you know, the business world puts up a lot of smoke signals and screens. But it's actually not that complicated. And if you read this book, in particular, if you read the, you know, the spine of the book, the middle, the middle of it, the eight core concepts, you will understand 100% of the businesses, you're looking at 100%. And you'll be able to have conversations with people who are in business about those businesses with the information in this, you know, right in the middle of this book. So that kind of irreverence. I was very much you know, trying to emulate. Yeah, I read the four hour workweek pretty soon after it came out. And I remember . . . I read a lot I've always read a lot. I love reading, and I've always loved reading business books. And I remember reading that and thinking, this is the first business book I can actually use because I had a Good to Great and everything in Good to Great is a great book. It's really interesting, but you put it down. It's kind of like, Well, what do I actually do with this? I mean, it's cool. But how do I go into the office tomorrow and change something? I read the Four-Hour Workweek. And it's like, I got a list of like, 100 things I can actually do in my business tomorrow to change things. It was so practical. There aren't that many books out there. I mean, like that. I mean, there's the E-myth is kind of another one that I say that's there's some good practical stuff in there and some of Steve Blank stuff. And yeah, I agree. Some of that stuff's practical. I think one of my favorites that, as you're talking about your book . . . this keeps coming up for me is Ben Horowitz is the Hard Thing About Hard Things. Yes. Have you read that one? I have read it. And it definitely would also be in the books that have inspired me. Yes.
Josh Steimle
Yeah. I'm reading a second one right now, the What You Do Is Who You Are. Have you read that one yet?
Marcus Whitney
No, No, I haven't.
Josh Steimle
That's a great one. It's all about culture. It repeats some of the stuff from the hard things. But there's a lot of new stuff. And it's just more focused on culture. It's equally great. It's a great book. But it's all about instilling the culture in your business. So your books out there, now you've finished it . . . five years, maybe it's a little bit too soon for me to ask you this question. But do you have any ideas for a next book? Do you think you'll write another book someday?
Marcus Whitney
I feel that I'm getting very close to committing to another book, but I'm not quite there yet. And that's because COVID-19 has somewhat interrupted what this book could be. And I'm . . . every day, I'm coming more into a commitment to making sure that I fully respect what this book is. And I don't think I've done that yet. I've been the last the last six months . . . You know, it's like, I launched this book, and I spent . . . I would say I spent maybe 60 days doing the best I could, in a virtual-only world promoting it. And, and then I pretty quickly went to raising another fund. And so I have not done this book justice yet. And so I owe it to the book to do that. And I need to kind of think about what that looks like and what that is. But I still, I still have to do that. So I'm not yet committed to the second book, but I have a pretty good sense of where I'm going with it. I have a pretty good sense of where I'm going with the next book. And it would be thematically the right next book to do after this one.
Josh Steimle
Cool. Can you give us any more of a sneak peek into it?
Marcus Whitney
I can, yeah, I can. I can. Um, the thing that got me across the line with this book was actually it's kind of like where both Tim Ferriss and Ben Horowitz went with their next book, right, which is more of sort of an internal thing. You know, this is more of an external book, this first one, it's about business and terms and interactions and leadership and things like that. You know, but what really got this book done was me starting to really focus on taking care of myself, you know, over the course of the 20 years. And all the progress and the accomplishments. And the failures, as I've talked about, you know, there was a lot of pressure, and a lot of fear and a lot of trauma and a lot of bad habits that were developed. And I had to take a bit of a break to just acknowledge that and work through that. And that meant therapy and amend sobriety. And it meant meditation. And it meant really thinking about nutrition, and it meant paying attention to getting at least seven hours sleep a night, or at least on average, you know, some nights, it's eight and a half some nights six, but you know, we want to average in that seven plus, you know, range. And, you know, I've been doing that for over two years now consistently. And what I've now found is that the level of my performance as an entrepreneur is significantly better. I'm more competitive, you know, and I don't just mean the spirit of competitive I mean, literally the work product, the quality, the execution. I'm more of a I'm more of a problem now. And, and so I'm thinking about that integration of you know, who you are as what you do, and the fact that . . . businesses fundamentally, you know, you brought it up when you were talking about was I afraid of somebody else coming out there, you know . . . the business exists in the market and the market is competitive. And, you know, it is hard to think of something that truly exists in an explicit format of a competition, where you wouldn't expect people to focus on their sleep, and exercise and diet, you know, anything athletic, but not just athletics, right. You know what I mean? That there's, there's other forms of competition where, you know, you can't just be a mess. You know what I mean, but for some reason, in the business world, it's like happy hours and all-nighters and all this nonsense. And it's not real, you know, and so the next book is directionally there. Yeah, it is crazy. Because I went through that period where I thought coming out of the.com crash, I thought, I mean, if you want to be successful, you've got to work 100- hour weeks, you got to sleep on the office floor. Everything is about the business. That's where all your time goes. And so I was working six days a week, I was missing family reunions, weddings, all that stuff. And I was a wreck, and the business was a wreck. And now I look back. And I'm like, What was I thinking? I mean, you wouldn't look at an athlete and say, well, gee, if they work out six hours a day, then they should work out 18 hours a day, because then there'll be that much better. It's like, No, you know, that their body would tear down and fall apart, and they'd be a mess. And yet, like you're saying, somehow, we think that entrepreneurs can push themselves 18 hours a day, and they're gonna get more done than if they do eight hours a day of reasonable work. And, yeah, my own experience, too, is when I backed off, I got so much more done. So then I backed off more, and I got more done. More done! Yeah. So that's the book I want to write. Right is the book that reflects that experience that you've had and the experience that I've had, and more and more entrepreneurs that I that I know, or are either seeking or starting to find themselves.
Josh Steimle
Yeah, I think a lot of us who are in our 40s and 50s understand this, because we've been through it, and we've wised up. But there's still this group coming up in their 20s and 30s, who are going through it. And they're thinking they're just where we were, and they need that book.
Marcus Whitney
I hope so. So I think that'll be the next one. And I hope that all the the pain that I went through to become a writer will make this next one easier. But like I said, I'm not fully committed to it yet, because this first one deserves a little bit more than I've given it.
Josh Steimle
Cool. Well, thank you for sharing that sneak peak with us. And, Marcus, thanks so much for being with us here today on the Published Author Podcast, and for sharing these insights and your story and your journey as an author. Where can people learn about you and follow you and connect with you?
Marcus Whitney
Marcuswhitney.com, that's my website, and you can just you know, sign up there I am at the moment on a little bit of a hiatus from all things online. I have if you look on my socials, they've been kind of dead for a minute. Just because the world is kind of a crazy place. And I'm trying to control the inputs and control the energy. And like I said, I've been working on this fund, but if you if you subscribe there, I promise you when I do reemerge and I give this this book, the proper platform that it deserves, and I start to you know, use my voice again. That's where you'll find me. So the best places to start with my website. Marcuswhitney.com.
Josh Steimle
All right. Thanks so much for being with us here today, Marcus.
Marcus Whitney
Thanks Josh for having me.
Josh Steimle
I didn't want to talk too much about myself on it this because it's all about you. But all your experiences as like, this is exactly what I went through. This isn't exactly me. Like every step of the way. I'm like, oh, that too. But it was funny. Like even stuff like where you're like, I'm the youngest child, and we're far apart. I'm like, hey, me, too. But there are so many things with your entrepreneurial journey to where I was just like, yep, yep, went there. Did that learn through that.
Marcus Whitney
I can tell. I can tell. Like it's nice that we can see each other because I can see as I'm saying stuff like nothing threw you off? Probably, if anything, you would just like Gosh, man, you know, I like I've had all these experiences. Yeah, it's just I was just checking it off as like, Oh, man. I know. I know what he's been through. Yeah, there's, there's a certain camaraderie when you go through those trenches. I mean, in a way, I'm jealous of people who they just start a business and they're successful from day one, but in a way, I'm also like, Man, you kind of missed out you know, like, you don't know what it's like to go for years without paying yourself and sleeping on the floor and living above a garage and your wife supporting you. Like you missed out on that. Sorry, you know, like, you just got rich immediately. I feel bad for you, but I've gone through that. I think there's a lot to what you're saying. Because the thing that has been so incredibly interesting, specifically about the last year, COVID-19, lockdown, like all this stuff, is how effortless gratitude has been, and how critical gratitude has been for me thriving in this moment, you know, and it's not a forced gratitude. It's like, I'm literally grateful, because I've been through a lot of hardship, you know? And I wouldn't trade that for anything, you know? Yeah, it's, yeah, I mean, I'd, I'd love to be flush with cash. But at the same time, I'm like, you know, having been through it. I'm grateful for all these experiences, because it's taught me something. My family, we read a lot, as a family, we're reading a book right now called The Little Princess. Have you ever heard about this one? So I had never heard of it before. But it's like one of those classics, you know, and it's, you know, the girl, she goes from riches to rags, and then back to riches. And I'm reading that I'm like, such a great book, because it's just that story of, if you've got it all, you just, you don't know what it means to have it all until you lose it. And then you can go back to having it all and you appreciate it. And that gratitude. I mean, they say they're all the studies that show that gratitude is the key to happiness. And so if you've never really been without, or you've never experienced what it's like to not have things, it's just harder to be grateful for those things. And then you're robbed of the happiness that comes. And so yeah, on the one hand, I'm like, man, I wouldn't wish what I went through on anybody else, but at the same time, like it's made me a happier, more grateful person for the little things that I do have. Absolutely.
Josh Steimle
Anyway, so good to talk with you today, Marcus. Really appreciate this. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe. And if you want to spread the word, please give us a five-star rating review and tell your friends to subscribe to we're available on Apple podcasts, Spotify, and everywhere else you listen to podcasts. And if you're an entrepreneur interested in writing and publishing a nonfiction book to grow your business and make an impact. Visit Published Author.com for show notes for this podcast and other free resources.
