Writer's Block Comes From Overwhelm, Not Having Nothing To Say
Ask innovators how they came up with a great idea and they’ll typically say it just came to them. But probe carefully and you’ll find they invariably followed a step-by-step formula that anyone can follow.
In her tenth and latest book, RE:Think Innovation: How the World’s Most Prolific Innovators Come Up with Great Ideas that Deliver Extraordinary Outcomes , author and renowned speaker Carla Johnson explains how the world’s most prolific innovators come up with great ideas that turn into extraordinary outcomes.
Carla has travelled the world, partnering with Fortune 500 companies and thousands of people to rethink their work and come up with game-changing ideas. What she discovered is the process is not that hard to master.
ANYONE CAN LEARN HOW TO COME UP WITH GREAT IDEAS
There’s a myth that innovation requires a bewildering, innate talent or years of specialized training to learn. But through comprehensive research for RE:Think Innovation, Carla found there was an easily learned method for coming up with these great ideas.
“What I started to see were patterns,” she says. “And it was that everybody followed the same process to come up with a great idea that led to outcomes much bigger than they could have imagined. They all follow the same process, whether they realize it or not. What this book does is break things down into a very simple, teachable, scalable process that anybody can follow.”
Indeed, the book unveils a five-step formula that helps readers draw inspiration and naturally generate ideas. It also teaches organizations to nurture employees who learn to quickly and consistently generate high-quality ideas that deliver outsized results.
INTERACTIVE BOOK RESEARCH
It took Carla five intense years to formulate the principles underlying RE:Think. Because much of it was uncharted territory, she relied heavily on her networks for ideas.
“This book was an opportunity to look at my own idea generation and organization process,” she says. “Because I wasn’t sure about all the parts and pieces, I blogged about them and shared them on LinkedIn, where I would ask questions about things I wasn’t sure about. My LinkedIn network was extremely valuable, to be able to ask questions about examples of companies that have done X, Y and Z, and get so much great information.”
As a prolific speaker, Carla was also able to test many of her concepts during entertaining talks to leading companies and their innovative leaders. In the process, she created much of the book’s content.
CREATING A THICK BOOK OUTLINE
“My outline was almost a mini book in itself, 17 pages and 5,000 words long,” she explains. “I think writer’s block, a lot of times, comes from overwhelm, rather than not having something to say. So as I made my outline more detailed, and I could see the storyline flow through it, it made it much simpler for me to sit down and work on chunks.”
It also helped to use storytelling to illustrate her ideas. “One of the things we struggle with is how to come up with a great idea that resonates with people. But it doesn’t matter how great your idea is. If you can’t tell its story, it will never get anywhere.”
While Carla tapped outside expertise to write the book, she learned to trust her own voice in delivering the message. “If you are an authority enough to write the book on it, then you don't need to constantly lean on somebody else to prove your points,” she says.
At the same time, she discovered, her ideas were what really mattered. “I had somebody very wise say to me: It's not about you, they're coming to hear your message. And your role is to share that message. Because there's a reason they need to hear it, there's a reason they need to hear it now and from you. And I think that is really important as an author to understand. I learned a while ago that my role in this whole writing process is that of an educator.”
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Josh Steimle
Today our guest is Carla Johnson. Carla is a world renowned storyteller, an entertaining speaker and a prolific author. She's written 10 books, having lived, worked, and studied on five continents. She's partnered with top brands and conferences to train 1000s of people how to rethink the work that they do and the impact they can have. Her visionary expertise has inspired and equipped leaders at all levels to embrace change, welcome new ideas, and transform their businesses. Her work with Fortune 500 brands served as the foundation for many of her books. In her 10th book, which is due out early this year, 2021 - so as you're listening to this, it may already be out on ebook, it might be coming out in print, or maybe both versions have come out before you listen to this. But it's RE:Think Innovation or Regarding Think Innovation. She busts the myth that innovation is something that requires a specific degree or special training. In fact, Carl explains why to be a successful company in today's hyper-competitive, customer driven world, innovation must be everyone's business. Her goal is to teach one million people how to become innovators by 2025. Carla, welcome to the show
Carla Johnson
Thank you, Josh, I'm so excited to be here.
Josh Steimle
I appreciate so much you coming on and sharing your thoughts about your author journey here. You've written so many books, I mean, 10 books is a huge milestone. How does it feel to be coming out with number 10 this year?
Carla Johnson
You know, amazing, I'll say that. It's amazing. And I think of all the books that I've written, this is the one I am probably the most excited about. And I'll have to say a lot of people have asked me how did you end up writing 10 books, like this was a big goal. And, and I say I'm an accidental author. I didn't . . . you know, a lot of your authors probably had it as a goal and were very thoughtful in in how they started down this road. But I, I have a Master's in history. And it was a publisher who had a special niche in railroad history called me and asked if they could publish my Master's thesis, which was about historic preservation of railroad stations. And that's why I say I'm an accidental author. So I think I crossed a really big threshold that can be intimidating for people. And I did it not on purpose. So once you cross it, it makes everything else a lot easier to go down that path.
Josh Steimle
You know, I always ask every author for their story. How did you become an author? And this is the first time I've heard this one of somebody saying, hey, let us publish your thesis and especially on preservation of railroad stations. That is interesting.
Carla Johnson
Yeah, it's really, it's funny and very fun. Also, to find out how many people are big railroad fans, and this was on the history of the Union Pacific Railroad stations in Omaha, Nebraska. So it's, it's a specialty niche, and it hits people who are historic preservation fans, history fans, railroad fans, and it goes across a lot of borders. And it was funny I did a podcast A number of years ago, and the book was published, actually 20 years ago, this month. So it's fun to have an interview about authors on this kind of anniversary. And it was a doctor who had heard a podcast that I was on, and he said, You're that same Carla Johnson. And it's interesting how we bring our interests to the work that we do that opens up a lot of doors that we don't think might be there.
Josh Steimle
Yeah, that is interesting. I've noticed that on my bio on LinkedIn, I share about being an adoptive parent adopting children, being a skateboarder and stuff. It's often that stuff that people remember because it's the different stuff. Everybody remembers. I mean, oh, you're an author. You're a speaker. Yeah, like everybody else. But then it's the little personal quirks that they say, oh, but you're also an author and speaker who has this little thing that I remember?
Carla Johnson
Uh huh, exactly. And I think it's the humaneness that helps us be memorable in that way.
Josh Steimle
So your first book was about preservation of railroad stations. What was the story behind the second book then? It was interesting, because I think one of the things that has helped me as an author is the convergence of my experience and my interests. And so my background in work has always been marketing. My academic background is history. I have a Master's in history. And I love to work with a lot of different kinds of companies. And I quit my corporate job to start my own company in June of 2001. So I guess this is really a year of anniversary for me. And my first client was Western Union and I worked for them for several years, helping them launch a customer loyalty program. And after we worked together for a couple of years, the head of brand said, you know, we have this person who says they want to write a history of Western Union. And it's not one that is sanctioned or driven by the company. And so they wanted to write their own history to make sure it told the story that they felt was accurate. And historically true, because they have an amazing archive of content over the years. And it was their 150th anniversary that year, it was the summer of 2006. And they wanted to make sure that it brought forth all of the richness of where they been, but also help pull everybody forward into the story they wanted to tell about the future, because they were splitting off from first data at the time, and they were going to be their own independently owned company for the first time in many, many years. And so that was my second book, again, kind of an accidental author. That was the history of Western Union, which was just an unbelievable project to work on. Yes, right place, right time. It sounds like.
Carla Johnson
Exactly, exactly. And I think with some corporate histories, or corporate published books, one of the big hurdles can be working with the legal team. And I learned so much in working with Western Union's legal team and what they taught me from a legal side of publishing and brands and intellectual property. And it's a company that has an incredible intellectual property, especially for that many years, then their advertising and everything. And that was a big value that I brought to some future projects that were corporate histories that I could teach others about - this is the proper way to do it. And this is how it should be done.
Josh Steimle
So with the rest of your books, I won't force you to tell us the story of every single one. But give us some of the highlights of the other books that you wrote. And the progress you saw during those years leading up to now your 10th book?
Carla Johnson
Well, it was. I wrote several other corporate histories. And I think that was, that's the fun part about many of these books is that every brand has a story. And what's the story that you tell. And when I worked on these, it wasn't so much about, let's talk about the legacy of where you've been. But let's talk about that in context of where you're going. Because I think a lot of brands, they do talk about the past, but then it just sits there. And there's no opportunity to use that as really a catapult forward. And as an opportunity to really bring change into an organization, because most corporate histories are written because of a milestone. For Western Union, it was their 100 and 50th anniversary and splitting off into their own company for the Corps of Engineers, it was their 75th anniversary. So looking at how you can use the power of a story in a book to create change, and welcome change, in a way that people don't always always realize. And then in 2015, I wrote the seventh book, and it was co authored with Robert Rose called Experiences: The Seventh Era Of Marketing.
Josh Steimle
This is Robert Rose of Content Marketing Institute?
Carla Johnson
Exactly. Yeah, so it was Robert's second book. And it was, I have to say this about a co author, I couldn't have picked anyone who was more wonderful to work with. And you know, sometimes it can be hard writing a book together with somebody. But we had the same ideologies and it flowed so well and so easily that it was really a fun project to work on. And it was that book that became the inspiration in the foundation for this 10th book. And the two in between were two books that I contributed to. And I took ideologies that I had about innovation in teams and curiosity and how it happens and what it looks like. And those were the contributions to books eight and nine that came out in 2018, and 2019. And then this one here this year in 2021.
Josh Steimle
So when you wrote number seven, did you know that you were going to write number 10?
Carla Johnson
I didn't. And it was actually the questions that came out of number seven that led to this in that with Experiences: The 7th Era Of Marketing it was about how to create story-driven experiences, and then a framework about how to actually execute on all of that. But one of the questions that I get the most following that book is we'd love the framework, we understand how to do it, but one of the things we struggle with is actually how to come up with a great idea that resonates with people. Because what happens in many cases is that companies or teams or even individuals, they don't necessarily come up with a new idea. They try to copy and paste an idea that's used in a different situation. And it always falls flat. Or they end up just rehashing something that they've already done. And so I started to dig into this process. Like who are People who consistently come up with amazing ideas over long periods of time, like this sustainable idea generation kind of people, and I would interview them about the idea and then walk them backwards as to how they got there. Because if you start out . . . when I started out and just said, this was an amazing idea for a campaign or product, or whatever it was . . . . approach to business, how did you come up with that idea, they always would say, I don't know, it just came to me. But if we reverse engineered it kind of back to what I learned in working in the architecture world, then they could tell me how they got there. And what I started to see were patterns. And it was that everybody followed the same process to come up with a great idea that led to sustainable and and often outcomes much bigger than they could have ever imagined. They all follow the same process, whether they realized it or not. So that's what this book does . . . is breaks it down into a very simple, teachable, scalable process that anybody can follow.
Josh Steimle
Can you walk us through that process real quick? Do we have to wait for the book to come out?
Carla Johnson
I'll give you a sneak peek. I'll give you a sneak peek. Now this part isn't part of what I outline as the process. But it's a very important aspect to consider along the journey . . . is one, what's the problem that you're trying to solve? And I teach people how to define that problem. And also look at the constraints. Because we know especially in the corporate world, there's always constraints that we have to work within. And oftentimes, it's time and budget. So as we look at the five step process, the first thing that I see that these amazingly creative thinkers, innovative thinkers do, is that they're very observant of the world around them. And they're able to . . . I call it connecting dots, they have different experiences, there's a diverse group of people that they connect with, they're very, very curious people and are always looking at their world with a different lens. And oftentimes, when we look at some of the things that are really minutia in our world, that they can kind of pick apart and be more curious about. So that's the first thing, is to learn how to better observe the world around you. Because you know, we're in a digital world, we're on our phones a lot, and that can be very distracting. So once you start to be a better observer, then what you need to do is start to look for patterns. And I call this step distilling. You're looking at all of these observations that you've made, and you're distilling them into patterns that have similar relationships. So for instance, one time I went and I did an observation exercise in Time Square. And I looked around and I thought things like all the tall buildings, flagpoles, flashing lights, all the people cars, and, and when I took all of these observations, and I started just to distill them into patterns, what I saw were patterns around things as simple as tall things, you know, it was buildings and flagpoles. And sometimes people, it was communication, you know, there's horns honking, there's lights, there's marquees . . . all of these just very general, and very simple patterns. Now, the third step, and this starts to take some things that are theoretical, like, let's observe the world, let's start, let's start to look for relationships. And this starts to relate it into your work. So it's a bridge between the theoretical and reality like, let's, let's look at what you actually have to get done and out the door at the end of the day. So we start to look at, okay, how do things like how people communicate relate to the work that you do, and the subjective problem that you're trying to solve? And then it's from there that we look at, okay, now we start to generate ideas around this objective and this inspiration that you have, And you start to ask, what if questions, you know, what if we could be better at solving our customer's problem, and we looked at it from a communication standpoint, or you know, something else that came from your distil pattern. And it's then that you start to generate ideas. And then you learn a process, an idea journey, that turns into a pitch, so a story. Because it doesn't matter how great your idea is, if you can't tell the story of it, it will never get anywhere. And what people typically do when they need a new idea is that they just get into the generate and pitch mode. And they're like, Oh, yeah, you know, company XYZ did this. Let's try this. And it's not really new. It's not really different. They don't have any context for it, even if it's a great idea, and they go to tell the story and it falls flat. So understanding how to draw inspiration from the world around you and, step-by-step, relate into the work that you do to generate new ideas is the foundation around how we need to start rethinking innovation.
Josh Steimle
You know, as you're talking about it, I feel like a lot of what you're describing is what children do, I almost feel like we're born knowing how to do these things instinctively. And then as we grow up, we somehow decide that, oh, there's a better way to do this. And we start copying what other people are doing. But maybe they're doing it the wrong way.
Carla Johnson
You know, you hit on something that's really, really a key message is that in the second part of the book, I talk about, well, how did we lose this ability, because there's research that shows we are creative like this, we are innovative thinkers like this, as kids, it's actually taught and rewarded out of us as we go through life. So this research from a gentleman named George Lands, and he was a systems engineer. And one of the things that he noticed was missing in successful businesses was creative and innovative thinking. And the tone of the directors of NASA came to him and said, you know, we have this amazingly smart group of engineers. But what we need to figure out is which ones are the most creative thinkers, because they're the best problem solvers. And we need to assign them to some of these bigger, really complex problems that we have. Can you help us identify who these creative thinkers are? And so that was George's charge, and he was able to do it and help NASA. But he asked himself an important question. He said, you know, kids don't have this problem. And if NASA, you know, one of the most innovative, creative types of companies struggles, to have people and find people who are creative thinkers, what happened between the age of five and 55, that this isn't the norm anymore. So he took the research that he did to help NASA find these people. And he adjusted it, and he gave it to 16,000 five-year-olds . . . this creative aptitude test. And he found out that 98% of the five year olds were functioning at a genius level of creativity. But then he said, you know, it's not enough to just ask a five-year-old so he followed them for 10 years. And he tested them again, when they were 10 years old, and again at 15. And what he found at 10 years old, that 98%, genius had dropped to 30%. And by 15 years old, it had dropped 12%. And when he looked at the average, across all of the adults he did, which was over a million people, it dropped to 2% creative genius. And the research that I've done about why this happens, a lot of it is because one as your brain develops, you learn some self-control. So you don't want everybody running around the world coming up with ideas like a five year old, do you, you know, you want a little bit of self control, which is a natural genetic thing that happens as your brain matures. But the other thing is that we're taught spontaneity out of us, we're taught that there is a one right answer. And you think about this, when you go through school, you're tested and quizzed and expected to write papers because you want to deliver what you want to give teachers the right answer. And that's how they grade you and reward you and that's how you go through the academic system. And then you get into the corporate world. And if you have the right answer, great, the project is success, you get a raise, you get a bonus, you get some sort of a reward. And if it fails, you know what happens? A lot of times, that's your invitation to go apply to work to someplace else. And so we learned that to try things we learn not to be spontaneous, we learn not to think in very divergent ways. And the end result is that we're taught to just follow the status quo.
Josh Steimle
So interesting, if you hadn't already convinced me to buy your book. Now, this sealed the deal. This is fascinating. So how can we apply this . . . to put you on the spot here? How can we apply this to the process of being an author when we apply your steps to the entrepreneur out there who's saying, I think I might want to write a book, maybe it could help me grow my business, maybe I could get more paid speaking gigs out of it and get more attention? How can we use the concepts that you've built around innovation, to come up with better content to serve our audiences and gain the attention we're looking for?
Carla Johnson
You know, one of my favorite books is called Think Like A Pirate. And I think that's a great example of how to take inspiration from something in the outside world and bring it into how we present a message as writers. And so there's much about what we know as writers. In a way it's almost called the curse of knowledge. And I think there's somebody who made that phrase famous, and when we look at what we know and we want to teach people, it goes back to we've generated an idea now we want to pitch it and write it and sell it. But what we need to do is go back and start with these first three steps, like where did the inspiration come from that? What are the patterns that you see? And how do you start to relate that into the work that we do? So when that book Think Like a Pirate, that was, that was a great inspiration that changed the whole perception, that changed the whole attention of the idea, and was a way to really make the book stand out. So as writers, if we can start to look at what really inspires us, what are your personal passions? Is it music? Is it cooking? Is it art? Is it collecting toy trucks? You know, is it something really quirky? And how do we start to use some of that to inspire how we tell the story of the idea that we have, and that we want to share? Because one, and I know you as an author and a writer . . . sometimes it's really a slog to get a book out the door. But if we can put it in the context of something that excites us, and makes it easier for us to relate to, our audience is going to find it that much more exciting as well, because one, it's probably a topic they relate to. But two, they can feel that passion and excitement coming through in our own energy as writers.
Josh Steimle
I often ask the writers I'm working with, are you really excited about this? Because if you're not, you're not going to finish. I mean, it's like running a marathon. If you don't really like running, you're gonna get halfway through that marathon and say, What am I doing this for? I quit. And it feels the same with a book. I mean, it does. It is a slog sometimes, and if you don't enjoy writing, and you don't enjoy the topic that you're writing about, there's just no way to finish that book.
Carla Johnson
You know, and that's true, and I've done both I've run marathons, and I've written books. And it's, I have never been as productive in a time in my life as when I'm writing a book. But I'll say it has nothing to do with being productive as a writer. It's . . . my house is cleaner. I've gotten every other project done that I've put out forever. And you really do have to care about the bigger message that you have and want to share if you're going to get that out into the world.
Josh Steimle
Yeah. So let's back up a little bit. . . . Going back to your writing process. When you set out to write your last book . . . What was the process that you took? I mean, having written nine books previously, what were some of the lessons you learned that you said, Okay, now that I'm writing number 10, I'm doing this the right way. And here's how I'm going to approach this. What was your plan of attack?
Carla Johnson
You know, the interesting thing was, is this was probably the most unorganized book that I've ever written, structurally. And I remember when Robert Rose and I were writing experiences, one of the things we kept talking about with our struggle as writers is that this was that we couldn't go and pull research on, because it was something completely new. Now, when you look at a corporate history, or something like that, there's lots of references, and it's really more about outline and chronology and putting the meat on an architecture of a storyline that's already there. But with this book, it was an opportunity to look at my own idea generation and organization process. That was very new for me. And I also, I was the only writer on this book. So one of the things that I did along the way, because I wasn't sure about all the parts and pieces, is that I blogged about them. And then I would share them on LinkedIn, I would ask questions on LinkedIn about something I wasn't sure about. And I also spoke a lot about the idea. So it was five years ago this month that I gave the first speech that gave me a little bit of a litmus test to understand is this an idea that people are interested in. And I couldn't have gotten better confirmation (it was at an event in New York City). And the person, the speaker who followed me was the chief marketing officer at Xerox at the time. And she said, I feel like Carla Johnson has been sitting in my office, a little fly on the wall for the last six months listening to all of my struggles about getting creative, innovative thinking for projects, and she just answered how to do them. So that for me was one . . . it reinforced that, yes, this is a problem that needs to be solved. Into this is a process that people see can help solve that problem. So for me, I would say the biggest thing that I did with this idea all along the way, was to continue to speak and write to test concepts that I had along the way. And as I did that, I wrote a lot of the content that I pulled in and used in different chapters. So as I then worked into an outline, and I'll say, my outline was almost a mini-book in itself. It was 17 pages and 5,000 words. And I could tell . . . what I did was I just got everything that I had out and onto paper. And it was at that point that I said, Man, I really need an editor. And I found an amazing editor who couldn't have been better for me to work with, to help me understand not just how to tell the story of the process. But he asked question of me, he said, okay, great people have the process. Now what? And he said, that's as much the part of the story as the process itself. Because if you give people a tool, but don't teach them how to use it, then you're missing a big part of what you can do to help people change, and actually take advantage of what I'd already taught him. So it was under his guidance, his name is James Ransom, that I was able to understand how to make this a much bigger story than I realized it needed to be. And in the end, I really feel it made this a much better book that I'm really happy with than had I not looked for support from an expert who understood how to do this.
Josh Steimle
So there are some great takeaways there. One was you didn't just come up with this content overnight. You were experimenting with this. You were testing it out, you were thinking it through for years, right?
Carla Johnson
Absolutely.
Josh Steimle
And then also, you mentioned that your outline was 17 pages. So one of my friends, Josh Bernoff, he wrote a book called writing love without the BS, and he talks about doing a thin outline, and then a fat outline. And he says a fat loud outline can be up to 50 pages or something. And I've implemented this with the people I work with. And I see the same thing. It's easy for people to come up with that short outline. But if you just stop there and say, Well, I got my outline. Now I write my book. It's such a big leap from that thin outline, that one-pager, to writing the whole book. But if you start bulking it up and adding some meat to those bones and creating that fat outline, that's a step that everybody seems to be able to handle. And then once you've got that done, it's kind of like, well, now I just need to fill in the blanks. Was that kind of how the experience was for you?
Carla Johnson
Yeah, absolutely. Because back to productivity as a writer, I think if you can take away any of that apprehension about sitting down and writing. And I think writer's block, a lot of times comes from overwhelm, rather than not having anything to say. So as I made my outline more detailed, and I could see the storyline flow throughout it, it made it much simpler for me to sit down and work on chunks. Now, the nice thing about how my book is structured, this 10th one, is that while it builds on each other, it wasn't necessary for me to work on it in chronological order. So if I got bored or frustrated with one area, I could go to another one, and work on it. The other thing that I think really helped me is that I use stories to illustrate each of these steps, techniques, tools, how to put it into implementation, whether you're an individual, a team or an entire company. And so I could draw on the learnings and the lessons and the stories from the examples that I had. And that helped me understand how to say some things in ways that were probably different and maybe a little bit more helpful than had I not made sure that this was a very story-driven kind of message.
Josh Steimle
And I love that you're bringing up story a lot too, because it's the story that makes it interesting. If it's just information. It's boring, right? But if you've got the stories in there, then it's fascinating. So in one of my groups, one of the students in this Masterclass asked me a question last week, she asked, How do you come up with stories if you don't have any stories? If you're a kind of a younger writer, newer writer, new, you're newer to your field? How do you come up with stories that aren't just copied out of other books? And you're just repeating what they have? How would you advise her?
Carla Johnson
You know, I ... one thing is that I'm a voracious reader, and I read a lot of different things. For this book, I knew what I was looking for. And at times, I would go out and I would just search for things such as innovative thinking non-traditional businesses, or creative thinking morticians. And it was one of those things where I found a mortician who has an amazing YouTube channel, that's very non-traditional. She definitely was an innovation re-thinker in how she approached things. But I found the same thing in the most boring industries and . . . accountants with lawyers, agricultural machinery. So I think if you have an idea of the kind of story that you're looking for, or you know, one of the great things about search engines as you can just put in some random group of words and start seeing what things come up with. I also appreciate my network on LinkedIn and I find it extremely valuable. To ask them questions and say, you know, I'm looking for examples of people or companies who've done X, Y, and Z. Does anybody know of any, you know, any examples like this? And you get so much great information. Now, for me, not every story that's in my book is one that happened to me personally. But I find my purpose as a writer is to tell the best stories, not to just tell my story; because I don't have all the experience, I haven't done everything in the world. And I think that's a really good thing. And a fun thing, for me, that comes out of writing books, is that I learned so much by studying other people who have exhibited the trait, or the thinking, or the skill that I'm wanting to teach other people.
Josh Steimle
That's awesome. Now, having finished 10 books, a lot of people get hung up at the end, they get their book 90%, done, 95% done, and then they get overwhelmed. And that writer's block comes in. Have you experienced this challenge with any of your books, where it was almost done and it was just so hard to do that last 5%? And how did you push through that?
Carla Johnson
Well, I would say, of all of them, it would be the first and the last one that I experienced that the most. But with the first one, I had a deadline I had to hit if I wanted to graduate with my degree. But I can tell you, I went right up to that final deadline. And I think part of it isn't always necessarily, for me, overwhelmed. But it's the familiarity of working on something so big that I'm going to finish, that crossing that mental mode of going from going to finish to have finished is, for me, is a much bigger mental hurdle than I realized. And I experienced the same thing with this 10th book as well. I mean, five years is a long time to work on something, you know, and people say, oh, what are you up to, oh, I'm working on my next book, and it becomes an easy thing to say and talk about. But to move from, that's what I am working on. And that delivery is out of the future into, okay, Like, I remember how it felt when I turned in the final manuscript, and I went to three o'clock on the very last day that it could be accepted in order to meet the timeframes, you know, that that I had with my publisher without, you know, having to, you know, pay someone financially to make up for the deadlines that have been missed, and things like that. And, for me, it's like, well, I know this space, and this is a familiar mental space for me to be in. I'm not as familiar with what happens next, because this is a different kind of book. And I own all of the marketing, and the PR, and everything that comes after this. But it's I think it's a constant practice of baby stepping and an understanding that that's a little thing. But it's not the only thing that you have to focus on as a writer.
Josh Steimle
What are some of the other top tips or tricks or methods that you've learned over the years writing all these books that have been the most helpful to you? Has anybody ever given you great advice that keeps coming back to you? Or is there anything that you tell yourself, as you're writing, remember, due to this, remember to do this?
Carla Johnson
I would say the best advice that I got came from two people. One, Andrew Davis, who isn't an excellent author, himself, and then also my editor said Don't give your credibility as an author or an expert on a topic to somebody else. And what they both meant by this, and this was really evident in my behemoth first outline, is that I was using other people's research and reference to prove my points. And their message was, if you are an authority enough to write the book on it, then you don't need to constantly lean on somebody else to prove your points. And that was amazing advice. Because one, it made me really dig in and think more about why I believed and thought what I did, about what I was writing. And I believe it also, again, push the credibility back to me, rather than me leaning on a bunch of statistics and other information from other resources that weren't necessarily going to make the story or the message that I was trying to convey any stronger.
Josh Steimle
So some people are afraid to talk about themselves because they don't feel like they're credible enough. And so they need to lean on other people to bring that credibility in. Other people just don't like talking about themselves. They feel like I don't want to be pointing my finger at me and saying, Look how great I am and all this. And so they hesitate to share some of those stories that really are the stories that bring the book live. How did you overcome this or how have you been able to get comfortable talking about yourself telling your own stories? Or do you find a balance? Or how do you work with that?
Carla Johnson
You know, that's a really fun question, Josh. And it's something that I struggled with, I think a lot, first as a speaker. And it's because I'm the youngest of five kids, and nobody listened to what I had to say. And you know, you're always fighting for attention. And you know, there's always a reason, or somebody telling me like, shh be quiet, or, you know, somebody else has the reason to have the floor, or knows more or, or something like that. And I remember the first time I was on stage and speaking, and the room was absolutely quiet, and people were listening to me. And I got so nervous, because I thought, like, What's wrong, like, something's wrong? I never had silence and full attention. And it's that comfort level, I think, with understanding your role between you as a deliverer as somebody who delivers the message, them as a receiver, and the message itself. And I had somebody very wise say to me: It's not about you, they're coming to hear your message. And your role is to share that message. Because there's a reason they need to hear it, there's a reason they need to hear it now. And there's a reason they need to hear it from you. And I think that same thing is really important as an author to understand. And I learned a while ago that my role in this whole writing process and author process is that of an educator. When I was working on my Master's thesis, my intention had been to go on and get my PhD in history and become a teacher. And as I started looking down the road at what was involved in, in not only getting my PhD, but life as a, you know, university professor said, that's not really my thing. But what always stayed with me is this really keen interest to teach people. And so as I looked at my role as an author, it's more as an educator, and understanding, it's not that I have to know everything, but I can bring everything about this topic in the way that I want to teach it to an audience that needs to hear it and needs to hear it from me. And I think that was something that really helped it not feel so self-serving, as I wrote in it made a lot of the writing parts much easier.
Josh Steimle
So regarding the work that comes after the book is done, what have you learned about promotion and marketing and getting your book out there and getting it into the right hands?
Carla Johnson
You know, in this is also an interesting question that has helped me working in the architecture industry in the past, because designing a building is much like writing a book. It's all the stuff that happens behind the scenes. And then, it's after you have that line of demarcation of the building is designed, or the book is written and now ready for public release, that's when people start to see the work. However, I think it works best if you tell the story and bring people along, so they understand what you're working on in the process. So it's just like, the surprise of a building, just popping out of the ground, and nobody knew what was going on. The same can happen with a book if you don't bring people along with the story and the message and, and the work itself. And that was one of the reasons that I found LinkedIn really helpful for me as I was writing the book, to ask questions and say, you know, here's what I'm finding, what do you guys think about this, or I'm looking for people or companies who have this kind of thinking of this kind of experience. You know, what is it that you're seeing, and it brings people into the process, and helps them be a part of it, I think in a way that makes them . . . . the release, feel like it's also a release of their ideas and things that they've contributed to. I also have a weekly email that I send out to my subscribers and I and I keep them up to date. And it's been really fun, because there's been a lot of people who said, you know, oh, you're working on this part, I have a company that you really need to talk to, or really need to look into. And that was one of the ways that I found that company, 19 crimes, that's a phenomenal example of a company that's rethought innovation and how they approach their entire industry, and market. And I think it's, we never do anything by ourselves. And I think the same is true about writing a book, the process of writing it, the process of promoting it, it's not just my book. This is a book that many, many people have helped me write. And I see it more as our book. And so it's something that we will release, and it's done together as a group.
Josh Steimle
Speaking of other people that you've worked with on your book, who are some of the other people who have directly been involved in your book - whether it's editors or cover designers or publishers - and how have you worked with them and how have they been helpful?
Carla Johnson
Well, I'm definitely as I said, and Andrew Davis, he's the one who really pushed me to think about My own idea generation process because he said to me one day, he said, I think that you have a way of connecting dots so fast and coming up with ideas that other people don't naturally. And it was the first time that I understood that. And he said, if that's something that you can deconstruct and pull apart in minute detail, and look at and see if it's something that's replicable, he said, I think that's a big idea that's worth pursuing. So it was definitely a lot of inspiration from Andrew and, and he's probably one of the most original thinkers you could ever know. And I worked through the framework a lot with him. And it's taken many different shapes and forms. And then and talking it through with how it's done at scale . . . Kathy Button Bell, she's the Chief Marketing Officer of Emerson (they are a digital industrial manufacturing company based in St. Louis) . . . Looking at her process . . . and she has done exactly this process for 20 years and had just phenomenal results with the work that she's done at Emerson. And then also Brian Kramer, who really helped me understand it's not just about the process of coming up with an idea. It's about the people behind it, who make it happen, and how they feel good about what they can contribute. And as you start to rethink innovation, you start to rethink people's purpose and contribution. So those were three people who were definitely key with the big idea. Michael Brenner was an amazing sounding board for me as well. And then when it came time to start to write the book, I reached out to Book Lunchers and they connected me with James Ransone. And he has been, just like I said, the most amazing partner for me as an editor and looking at how to really structure and tell this story in a way that's valuable and cohesive, and very, very meaningful. And then when I looked at artistic direction and design, Jacob Kalinowski, he did some early concepts on the book and was able to really hit the idea of rethinking and how to graphically communicate it. And then he's done some of the interior graphics for the work that's done. And also Marcy Hancock, she's done a lot. She's Run Rabbit Creative . . . she does does great work, and is still helping me with some things that will continue to unfold. And then Morgan James Publishing - They're my publisher, and they have just been great to work through. And I tell you, Dave, is the CEO there. And he's probably . . . he's like a walking encyclopedia of how to promote a book. And he's co-author on a book called Guerilla Marketing for Writers that I'd suggest everybody look at if you're if you're writing a book, and . . .
Josh Steimle
We actually interviewed him for an earlier episode. And I would drop the number of the episode here, but we don't know what episode it's gonna be. It hasn't been published as of this recording. But if you go back in the earlier episodes, it will be there by the time you listen to this one. So . . .
Carla Johnson
And he is, like I said, just just a walking encyclopedia and, and always available and so supportive of their authors. And like I said, just so many people I've interviewed or given me testimonials are supported and encouraged me about the idea that that's why I say it's not just my book, it's all of our book, because nobody could do something like this by themselves. And those are people who I've really trusted and depended on and really respect and value all of their input.
Josh Steimle
Perfect. Well, Carla, thank you so much for being with us here today. And where's the best place for people to connect with you online? You know, my website is Carlajohnson.co. There's no M. That's my website. And you can find things there about my book. And I always love it when people connect with me on LinkedIn as well. All right. Thank you so much for being with us here today on the published author podcast. Carla. Thanks, Josh. It was really fun to be able to talk about the writing process with everybody.