Marketing pro Andrea Fryrear has authored two successful books and her advice to would-be entrepreneur-authors is to just sit down and write your book. 

If you can’t write your book then just sit and write, even if you think it’s terrible, and do this consistently every day. 

Our guest on this latest episode of the Published Author podcast tells host Josh Steimle she would get up at 5 a.m. every day and right for about 60 minutes, no matter what. “Sometimes it was 2000 words, sometimes it was like 200, barely, and some of it was terrible,” says Andrea. “But I'm definitely in that school of just ‘Sit down and do it’. And you can't wait for that bolt of inspiration because it almost never comes at the right time.”

Andrea, co-founder of the agile marketing agency Agile Sherpas, wrote her first book—Death of a Marketer: Modern Marketing's Troubled Past and a New Approach to Change the Future—after a desire to look backwards and see how marketing has evolved and where it is today. She also wanted to further establish herself having just launched her own agency, Agile Sherpas.

Writing a book, she says, creates a hefty business card. “It proves a lot about my knowledge and background, and the book continues to work really hard” for her and her work.

TOP TAKEAWAY: USE PR AND NETWORKING TO PUSH YOUR BOOK

Andrea’s second book—Mastering Marketing Agility: Transform Your Marketing Teams and Evolve Your Organization—was published just after the onset of the pandemic. But that hasn’t stopped it having impressive sales and getting lots of five-star reviews.

She achieved this with a well-coordinated marketing campaign, combining online speaking engagements, a PR campaign, and tactical networking. 

The PR campaign was with an agency specializing in book publicity. As a result, Andrea netted a couple of recurring columns, as well as quotes in articles, podcasts, and interviews.

Next, a personal email campaign to people she’d met at conferences, colleagues, or clients asking if they’d be on her book launch team generated a response of around 40%. These folks wrote reviews of the book for Amazon, LinkedIn, or both.  

“They did help spread the word very organically, which was super awesome, because when Mastering Marketing Agility launched, there were already some really positive five-star reviews ready to go, as opposed to having to wait for the reviews to build up. 

SELF-PUBLISHING AND TRADITIONAL PUBLISHING

Andrea self-published her first book and used a traditional publisher for her second one. The publisher Berret-Kohler reached out to her, saying they were looking for authors who could write about agile. She recalls: “They said 'Hey would you be interested in writing a book?' and I said: 'I already am. Would you like to see what it looks like?'.”

Although Andrea’s book writing and publishing journey sounds as though it’s been relatively simple, she’s experienced struggles, particularly with her first book, Death Of A Marketer.

“I suffered from a lot of imposter syndrome, especially because I spent some time covering the history of agencies and advertising agencies,” she explains. “I thought: ‘I’m not the most informed person about these. I read a lot and I've tried to provide what I think is an accurate depiction but I'm not a scholar or any of these sorts of things. 

“I felt people would send me angry emails saying this isn't right or this isn't accurate. And of course, that never happened. I was concerned for no reason!”

This episode is a must listen for any entrepreneur keen to lift their career with the power of a book. Be sure to listen today!

LINKS

• Twitter

• LinkedIn

• Instagram

• Fryrea.com

• AgileSherpas.com

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Josh Steimle

Welcome to the Published Author Podcast where we help entrepreneurs learn how to write a book and leverage it to grow their business and make an impact. I'm your host, Josh Stimele. Today, our guest is Andrea Fryrear. Andrea helps innovative marketing leaders transform their teams into agile powerhouses. She's the founder of Agile Sherpas, the world's leading agile marketing consulting, training and coaching firm, and the author of Death Of a Marketer: Modern Marketing's Troubled Past and a New Approach To Change The Future. And her latest book is Mastering Marketing Agility: Transform Your Marketing Teams and Evolve Your Organization. Andrea, welcome to the show.

Andrea Fryrear

So excited to be here talking about books and marketing. It's like the best hour of my day.

Josh Steimle

Awesome. Well, give us some background on yourself. First, where do you come from? How did you become a marketer and the owner of a marketing agency? What's your story behind all that, and then we'll get to how you became an author as well.

Andrea Fryrear

For sure. So I think like a lot of people, I sort of fell into marketing, I didn't go to school for it or necessarily plan for that as my career. I have an undergraduate degree in English. So I thought I was going to be a college professor for a long time. And that didn't turn out to be the right fit for me. But I took a job as an editorial assistant for a newspaper syndicate, and they needed a website update. And I knew the most about websites somehow they didn't have anyone in the building. So I started running their website, which turned into SEO, which turned into online ads, which turned into suddenly, I'm a marketer without really realizing it. And then as content marketing started to really take hold, that became this perfect marriage between the writing background and the marketing understanding. And so I became really focused on content marketing and content strategy, before I left the sort of brand side world to start teaching people how to fix their processes, inside of marketing so that all the work we do can flow better. And that's where Agile Sherpas comes in. So a bit of a circuitous path. But that's the fun kind, I guess.

Josh Steimle

Cool. So then, what's the story behind the founding of Agile Sherpas? How'd that get started?

Andrea Fryrear

Yes. So I was writing about our agile transformation inside of the SAS company I was working out when I first discovered agile, and just was experimenting with the the team there to see what was working, and it was helping us a lot. So I wrote about it on the company blog, and spoke about it at a couple of industry events, which led to people reaching out and saying, hey, that's cool. Could you help us do the same thing. And eventually, I got enough of those kinds of inquiries that I thought, Hey, I could actually do this full time. And so left to start the training organization that helps other people do the same thing.

Josh Steimle

Cool. Now, for those in the audience who don't know what agile means, outside of like being able to jump really high or something. What does agile mean, when you combine it with marketing?

Andrea Fryrear

Yeah, essentially, it's the rigorous application of prioritization, right? So we pick a handful of things that are really important. And then we focus the team's effort on just those things until they're done. So a lot of times, this takes the form of a sprint, where we take a short chunk of time and say, What value can we deliver at the end of a few weeks, and we cycle through those. Or you might just have a Kanban flow, where it's like, let's work on this high priority item till it's done, and then start on the next one. But the main theme is focused effort on high value work, and shutting out all the noise around you.

Josh Steimle

So if I'm working on 30 things at the same time, and I'm getting a little bit done here and there, then I'm not agile, is that right?

Andrea Fryrear

That is correct. No matter how fast you move, you're not really capital A agile if you're not focusing your efforts.

Josh Steimle

All right. Well, I need to work more on that then because that's what it feels like. So you started the company now your first book, did that precede the company? Or did the company proceed your first book,

Andrea Fryrear

they were close to simultaneous, so Agile Sherpas, we opened our doors in September, and then the book came out in the following March. So pretty close to one another.

Josh Steimle

Okay. And what was the motivation for the first book, or where did the idea come from?

So it was sort of born out of my academic background, let's say, a desire to really look backwards and see what what got us here where, what are the factors and things that have brought marketing to the state that it's in right now. And of course my lens was and then why does that mean agile should be the future of the marketing profession. And really, I wrote it. I spoke to a lot of peers and colleagues who had gone out on their own. And they talked about how valuable their book had been in establishing them as a credible consultant trainer, those kinds of things. And so I felt like the book was the right way to spend my time early on. And writing is fairly straightforward activity for me to do. So it came fairly easily. And it really, it did its job, you know, it's, it's a hefty business card, you know, that proves a lot about my knowledge and background. And it still continues to work really hard, even though it has now a sequel of a different book.

Josh Steimle

Cool. So then with the second book, I mean, you already had the first book. So technically, you are already an established authority and an expert, why did you feel the need to write a second book.

Andrea Fryrear

The second book was was that book that you can't not write, like it was in my head. And it was this culmination of years of work with clients and students. And it's sort of, you know, clicked one day I had this, this image sort of come into my head while I was running. Actually, it was like that, that's the visual that represents like all of this stuff that's been happening over the last few years. And so I had to go, it had to get out of my brain. And so that's where the second one came from.

Josh Steimle

Gotcha. So you went through self-publishing on your first book, and then traditional publishing with the second, tell us a little bit about the differences there your experience self publishing, on the first book, what you learned from that, why you chose to go with a publisher on the second and how those experiences compared to one another?

Andrea Fryrear

Yeah, with with The Death Of A Marketer, I wanted it to get out, I was doing a workshop at South by Southwest. And so I wanted the book to be available before the event. And I knew there was no way a traditional publisher would hit that. For me, I had about six months, between the time that I wanted to write the book and the time, I needed a physical book to take with me to south by. And so that was part of the reasoning, there was just there was no way to even shop it right in that amount of time. And so I just kind of jumped into it. I did have a project manager, who I worked with, and she works with self-published authors and kind of helped me navigate the like, Okay, if you want to hit March, that means you need to have the draft by here and the copy edit here and kind of work through the schedule. And she helped me find somebody to do the interior layout, and right, all those sorts of things that are pretty time consuming. And so that helped accelerate the timeframe. But it's a lot more work, I would say self-publishing. But you can move a lot faster, right. And there's not as many constraints as there are with a traditional publisher.

Josh Steimle

So beginning to end, from the time you had the idea and started working on your first book until you were holding the physical copy in your hand about how long are we talking?

Andrea Fryrear

It was it was that six months? You know, it was like September to march was the whole the whole cycle.

Josh Steimle

Okay, so pretty quick.

Andrea Fryrear

It was.

Josh Steimle

Alright, so then when you went to do your second book, what was going through your head because you knew you could Self Publish? So why did you go with a publisher? And how did you get connected with that publisher?

Andrea Fryrear

It was an interesting thing. I had already started the book, because it right kind of left to my mind. And I had planned to self publish again, because it was work. But I felt like it gave me the flexibility that I wanted. And so I was happy to do it again. But actually Berret-Kohler reached out to me and they were looking for agile authors because they wanted to focus in on that topic, it was becoming of more interest to their partners and audiences. And they said 'Hey would you be interested in witing a book?' and I said: 'I already am. Would you like to see what it looks like?' And it was also a nice way to taste the other experience, you know, to see well what this actually mean, I'm a writer, I love writing and I plan to continue to do it. So it's a bit like, well, now I can do an A B test of you know, which one would actually work better and be more enjoyable, efficient, whatever the criteria are. So signed with BK and definitely did not get to market in six months from the start of writing the book this time, but it was different, but I would say a good experience overall.

Josh Steimle

They say that when you work with a traditional publisher, you can tack a year or two on to your timeline for getting your book published. How did that compare to your experience with Berrett Koehler?

Andrea Fryrear

I think it's that's pretty accurate. It was much more like 18 months from me sitting down to write the first draft to book hitting, you know, Amazon and bookstores.

Josh Steimle

Now, what were some of the pros of working with Berret-Kohler? Did they assist you with edit editing? Or cover design? Or typesetting? Like, did they make that a lot easier for you? Or

Andrea Fryrear

They really did. Yeah, that, you know, they bring all of those people to you, they have those folks in house. And with that said, though, it was a really collaborative process still. So I met with their cover designer, and she asked me to provide her like books, book covers that I liked and didn't like. And she sent me a bunch of sort of vision board type things of like, which of these types of images speaks to you? Do you want it to be graphical or photograph or so I still got to have a lot of input into it. But then I had a ready-made professional, who I didn't have to pay right for Death of a Marketer, I had to pay for the interior design and all of those other things. So I didn't come out of pocket for any of that stuff, either. Or Mastering Marketing Agility. And they did interior layout. And they have sales people who were selling the book to bookstores before it even was out in the world. So to me, that was the main benefit is dozens of marketers have never been in bookstores, because you need those sorts of relationships. And that was something that I thought, let's, let's see if that actually helps sales and, you know, is is a valuable addition to the book's life.

Josh Steimle

Cool. So what was your writing process, like on your first book, in terms of actually sitting down outlining, getting the words on the page, a lot of people get hung up? Well, I mean, people get hung up at every stage of the book, right? They don't start, they don't continue, they don't finish. But what was your process like getting started and then seeing it through to completion.

Andrea Fryrear

So I'm an outliner. So like, I like to see the bones of it out. And then I can go to the part that seems easiest at the moment, right. So a lot of Death Of The Marketer was research-heavy, because it was looking at a historical lens. So I knew sort of the general points I wanted to hit. And then I had to spend a lot of time in the library here at the university and in Boulder, finding the resources and getting the information that I needed. That was definitely the most time consuming part. And then once I had done all the research, I knew, according to the outline, write that this was sort of the flow of the story. And the outline helped me be able to jump around and still know the overall arc of the book. So the outline was really helpful. I'm also one of those people that like, I thrive on routine. And so I would get up at 5am every day and right for about 60 minutes, no matter what, right? Sometimes it was 2000 words comes in that time. And sometimes it was like 200, barely. And some of it was terrible. But I'm definitely in that school of just sit down and do it. And you can't wait for that like bolt of inspiration because it almost never, never comes at the right time.

Josh Steimle

Were there points where you hit writer's block or felt like I just don't want to write today? And how did you approach that?

Andrea Fryrear

Yeah, there were definitely times especially I wanted, you know, a particular kind of story for a certain part of the book. And I just couldn't find a good example in the historical background perspective. And I would have to change that up and it felt really like step backwards, and it could be disheartening. You know, I don't know that I've experienced actual writer's block, it was more like writer's procrastination. But just even to sit down, even if you're not writing words, for that, you know, we're going to make it into the book, right? Just write something to keep yourself in the habit. There were things that I was like, This is never gonna go in the book, but maybe it'll be a blog post someday, you know, and just write something. And, and it keeps you committed to to the activity. Yeah, I would say that, that that? Always do it. Even if it's . . .

Josh Steimle

on your first book, did you run into doubt about whether you really wanted to be an author or whether you should be an author? I mean, a lot of first time authors they deal with this self doubt of? Does anybody really care what I have to say? Will anybody buy this? Will anybody read it? Will anybody like it? Were those thoughts going through your head as well as you were writing your first book?

Andrea Fryrear

Yeah, I suffered from a lot of imposter syndrome, I think, especially because I spent some time covering like the history of agencies, advertising agencies. And I thought, I am not the most informed person about these right, I read a lot and I've tried to provide what I think is an accurate depiction but it's I'm not a scholar or any of these sorts of things. And so I felt like, definitely people are going to send me angry emails that like, this isn't right or this isn't accurate. And of course, that never happened. I was concerned for no reason. But it's part of it, I think is a good thing. Because it makes you more rigorous and make sure you know that you are doing due diligence, and you're trying to do provide the the best overview that you possibly can. So that was mostly my worry of, you know, I'm not the right person, or I don't, I'm not worthy of covering this topic, more so than anything. But, you know, you you, you jump at some point, and yeah, maybe it goes sideways. But it's still better than not doing anything at all. And it like I said, No one's ever sent me an angry Hill. And it's all been just fine.

Josh Steimle

None of the fears were founded. So how about with your second book? Was it easier on the second book? Or did you still feel some of those same feelings of dread and doubt?

Andrea Fryrear

I did not have those feelings. This time around. The second book was more based on my own experiences and expertise. And so I felt much more qualified to, to speak about those things. The difficulty with Mastering Marketing Agility, which is time more, so when I wrote death of a marketer, I was very early in my entrepreneurial journey. And so I had just a couple of clients and a lot more time to sit down and write, whereas with Mastering Marketing Agility, Agile Sherpas, was growing really fast. And we had a lot of clients. And this was, you know, a year plus ago now, so I was traveling all the time as well. So there was a lot of time on planes with like my giant manuscript, marking it and it was just harder to find those dedicated blocks of time to write it.

Josh Steimle

Sure. So what did you learn from the first book that you were able to take into the second book and improve upon?

Andrea Fryrear

Definitely relied heavily on my outline, again, recognizing that it was the thing that allowed me to kind of keep plodding forward, when I didn't really know what I wanted to say in that exact section, I at least knew how it fit into the larger arc of the book. And it would help me, you know, I could skip this section confidently knowing that I could come back to it, depending on what was happening around me at the time. I also had much more realistic expectations about like how long it takes to copy edit a certain amount of stuff for me to send it to the editor, then for them to send it back and the expectation of what I needed to do. And also in terms of looking at what works on the cover and reaching out to people for blurbs earlier, because you know, you it's not consider it to be like, I need your blurb by tomorrow. Thanks so much, you know, to give people more runway for that as well.

Josh Steimle

It's hard to be agile when you're asking people for favors, huh?

Andrea Fryrear

Hmm. Yes.

Josh Steimle

So what were your expectations with your first book in terms of how it would be received, what the reaction would be? What kind of success would flow from it?

Andrea Fryrear

I think I had pretty low expectations, to be honest, like, because of that kind of imposter feeling that I had of just like, well, I'm going to do this, but I can't imagine that anyone will, will care or you know that it'll, I'll be able to send it to clients and give it to students and things like that as a value add, but I never really thought it would be too much of a game changer. But I've had several clients who have brought it with them, right, either literally, or they bring it up in sales conversation and say I read your book, and I love everything you said, like where do I sign? And I've been like, wow, like, you know, the time and money invested in it has been just returned tenfold because of what it's been able to do for the business, which was a very pleasant surprise.

Josh Steimle

That's great. The power of low expectations. It's, it's a wonderful thing, isn't it? So then with the second book, you already kind of knew maybe what to expect based on the results of the first book. How have your expectations been met or exceeded? Or how have they adjusted?

Andrea Fryrear

Mm hmm. Yeah, I did have higher expectations for Mastering Marketing Agility, especially because I knew it was so practical. It's very specific and represents a lot of hard-won knowledge from years of working with people. So I definitely have expected it to perform well. And however, I think I should temper that by saying I am a content marketer at heart and really, I wanted to help people with the book and I kind of you know, followed the general recommendation of give away everything you know, right just put it all out there. And then actually people will appreciate that and come back to you for more. And so far, that seems to be the case. We've used it really effectively with like ABM efforts at Agile Sherpas, and sending it to prospects and things like that, because it does show the depth of expertise that we've won over long hours and years of, of experience. So, in that regard, I think, you know, we all have something like that we've all had some valuable experience that that being open and sharing that fully will create trust and bring people closer to Yes, whatever you're trying to get them to say yes to.

Josh Steimle

So now, Mastering Marketing Agility came out in the middle of a global pandemic, which of course, nobody could have planned on, do you feel like that impacted the results that you got, as the book has come out?

Andrea Fryrear

I think in some bizarre ways, it's helped the book a bit, because it is about agility. And that's been sort of an ongoing theme this year of, you need to be agile, if you're not, you're in big trouble, those kinds of things. And I actually did work with a PR agency this time around. And so they were really useful in helping me to be responsive to things that were going on too, because not too long after the book came out. There was the big, multiple news cycles, right around Black Lives Matters and social justice and things as well. And so they helped me to position the book as you know, a potential way for marketing teams to use agile to decide whether they should participate in those conversations, if so, how, right because it involves a lot of rapid adjustment and responsiveness, which is very much in line with agile ways of working. And so it was really nice to have them as partners to say, because I didn't want to be inauthentic, right, like I didn't write the book with that in mind. But if it could be helpful to people that I wanted to be able to share that message, but also not to feel opportunistic about any of those things. And so, you know, I would say having a PR partner was really helpful to make the book work as hard as it could, in the midst of some really challenging, challenging times,

Josh Steimle

For sure. Tell us more about working with this PR partner, how did you get connected with this agency? Do they specialize in working with authors? And what's that experience been like?

Andrea Fryrear

Yeah, they are specializing totally in, in published authors, with a particular kind of lean toward business books. So they know how to reach those kinds of outlets, as opposed to a more like consumer facing or fiction.

Josh Steimle

Did you seek them out? Or did your publisher connect you with them? How did you find them,

Andrea Fryrear

I did seek them out. And I interviewed a couple of different places. And they seemed like the best sort of bang for the buck. And it was a really good experience. We did four different campaigns, I guess we could call it pitches is what they were calling it, but like different angles around the book. So let's talk about part of the book talks about the CMO lifespan and how. Why are CMOS turning over so quickly? And so we did a bunch of efforts around there. And of course, that goes to particular outlets, and then different, different angles. So it was really helpful. I got a couple of recurring columns out of it. So I got some continued exposure over the long-term from those efforts, as well as the usual quotes in articles, podcasts, interviews, those sorts of things, that were sort of one offs.

Josh Steimle

Where were some of the places that you were able to get columns set up?

Andrea Fryrear

So writing for business.com now and CMSWire, Builtup is another one, those are the three that are recurring at this point.

Josh Steimle

What kind of platform did you have built up before your second book? This latest book came out?

Andrea Fryrear

Yeah, it's it was definitely stronger than it was when Death Of A Marketer came out. I've I've spent a lot of time in the intervening years speaking and writing just blog posts and things. And so I had a stronger social following, for sure. And then we also, of course, we're building up an email list at Agile Sherpas. So it was the email list alone at agile Sherpas was probably three times what it was when Death of a Marketer came out. So that's been helpful. My own social followings were easily double what they were when Death Of A Marketer came out. So that's, that's been nice. And there's those kinds of things have led to more like spontaneous response. To the book, I've had a couple of people write that, read it and post on LinkedIn, like, I read this, it's amazing, this is so helpful. And that didn't really happen with Death Of A Marketer. So just continuing to build that personal brand, I think makes every book you do land a little bit more strongly.

Josh Steimle

Right. I heard once somebody say that the best marketing for their first book was writing their second book. So if there was any one thing that you did in terms of marketing, promotion, PR that helped the most with either of your books, what's that one thing that you would recommend that other first time authors take a close look at?

Andrea Fryrear

Definitely a fan of speaking for Death Of A Marketer. That obviously looks different now than it did in the years that I was talking about it. But that's even, even virtual speaking, right, you can give away digital copies of the book, or people can buy digital copies of the book. So I think, deliberately setting yourself up to talk about the book or the contents of the book is really smart. So not just speaking, but speaking on topics that are related to the book so that you can say, if you want to learn more about this, I have a book all about it. And you know, here it is. And that's what I did for Mastering Marketing Agility. It was a good like, lesson for me, I don't think I did as good of a job with it as I could have for Death Of A Marketer, but for Mastering Marketing Agility, I thought, Okay, what is the talk that leads people to say, Oh, well, I need to do that. So therefore, I need Andrea's book, you know. And that's still helpful in the 30 or 45 minutes that you hear me talk about it, but leads you to really want to take that step. And so thinking deliberately about that, I think is important. So getting yourself out there to speak. And even on podcast interviews, as well, you know, those are now I think, an easier platform in some ways, since you can't travel to conferences quite as easily to get on podcasts and but again, to be able to say, these are the things I'd like to talk about so that it leads naturally into me being able to mention the book.

Josh Steimle

You're one of the things that you did that I appreciated was you sent out the series of emails, you sent out an email saying, Hey, will you be on my book launch team? And then you sent out emails later on when your book was launching, saying, here's some specific things that I'm going to ask you to do? How did that work out for you? Were you were you able to see any measurable results from that?

Andrea Fryrear

Yeah, that was actually really helpful. And so these, I had a list of about 150 people that I've met at conferences, or colleagues or clients, or any of those sorts of things that I thought would be interested in the book and would be happy because of our relationship to help me out. And so I did I emailed everybody one-on-one, and it wasn't a mass thing for the most part. The the, hey, the book is out, can you please help me promote it was more, one to many, but I had probably a little over 35 to 40% of those people like directly replied to me and say, Yes, I would be delighted. They wrote a review for me either in a reply email, or on Amazon, or both. They posted about it on LinkedIn, they did help spread the word very organically, which was super awesome, because then when mastery marketing agility launched, there were people the day that it went out, there were a couple of really positive five star reviews already ready to go as opposed to having to wait too long for those to build up. And of course, that momentum really helps. And so it's, it was also the sort of ask that I did not feel bad making because I help those people out as well. Right. So they've made similar asks of me when they've had books come out, and I actually do help them with and it's a equitable exchange, as opposed to just ask me for a favor kind of out of the blue.

Josh Steimle

Well, as we wrap things up here, what are some other bits of wisdom or advice that you could pass on to our audience, which is primarily entrepreneurs who are first time authors looking to write a book too, that they can leverage to grow their business? What other pieces of advice have we not discussed yet that but that you'd like to pass on to them?

Andrea Fryrear

I would say, as you're writing, especially your first book, think about what you want people to do at the end of it, right? It's a little bit like writing a really, really long blog post, like what's your CTA at the end of it? I didn't know what it was when I wrote Death Of A Marketer is just like, please trust me and believe that I know what I'm talking about. But with Mastering Marketing Agility, it was much more of, you know, I want to lay out everything that you need to do to transform your marketing organization, I'm going to be straightforward and show you everything. But probably what you're going to realize is This is hard. And you could use some help, right? And then you hopefully will reach out to agile Sherpas to help you. So I would encourage people to think, what is that realization they would like people to have at the end of the book, right? So that's amazing. I want to do that. I need help, right? How do you kind of take them along that journey, but also still provide enough value that if somebody gets to the end and goes, That's amazing, I want to do that I'm going to get started. They are still equipped to do that. So that you're not it doesn't feel like to bait and switch, but to be very deliberate about what you would like people to be prepared to do at the end of the book.

Josh Steimle

Do you have a next book in mind?

Andrea Fryrear

I think I've still not recovered fully from from Mastering Marketing Agility I was compared to having kids like, you need some time to forget how hard the last pregnancy was before you are willing to sign up for another one. No doubt there are more books coming. I love writing and I love having that opportunity to communicate with people in a really deep, detailed way that you know, blog posts, or even interviews don't give you so definitely more books are coming but I don't know what they will be yet.

Josh Steimle

Thank you so much, Andrea, for being with us here today. If people do want to find out more about you and Agile Sherpas, where can they learn more?

Andrea Fryrear

So agilesherpas.com will have all the resources and information about agile marketing. You can find more about me at Andreafryrear.com including links to both books.

Josh Steimle

Great. Thank you so much for being with us here today, Andrea.

Andrea Fryrear

Always a pleasure, Josh. Thank

Josh Steimle

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